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Discussion: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
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FrancePetre |
wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 6:52 AM EDT
some say jane , others Anne ...
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Henry VIII
Loves
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Jes89 |
1. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 12:21 PM EDT
"some say jane , others Anne ..."i have been always on the team of "Henry just loved himself" and more time comes and i study about him i get to myself that no woman libing on earth would give him the love he wanted so much, the perfect thing. Maybe in some medieval romance... About Jane and Anne, i keep my thoughts. Some say: " he did all for Anne" no. He did for much more, he saw his chance and took it to become even more powerful and Anne was the little cataclysm of it. If he had to break with another church and went through all again for Jane, he would. Thats was Henry. To me Anne was a passion after a monotonous marriage, some fresh air and them, the fresh was gone, Jane he was in love with her fenix memory to me. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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FrancePetre |
2. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 1:08 PM EDT
yes , thank you for this , however he waited for anne so long , i believe she meant more than fresh air but indeed henri was in love with henri :-)
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HeverRose |
3. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 2:43 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 8 2011, 2:44 PM EDT
Before you can answer the question, you have to define what you mean by love. There is passionate love, there is companionship love, there is true, deep love, there is infatuation, which is just like passionate love, just more ridiculous. Then there is the kind of love you have for someone who doesn't cause you any trouble. You love them because they make you feel good.i agree with Jes89 that Henry did not really "love" in a deep sense any woman. I am not sure about whether or not he loved himself. I think he might have been angry and guilty about himself quite a bit and therefore was so ready to blame others . He was a most disloyal person to everyone he ever loved, male or female.That behaivour is worthy of more extensive analysis. As for the wives, here is my assessment: 1. KoA: At first he loved her as a young boy loves an older more exotic woman, but he got bored quickly once he saw what younger fresher flowers were available.. 2. Anne Boleyn: passionate love that is chemically induced. It is not concerned with having things in common or really knowing a person. it is sexual and chemical. Once the chemicals wore off, his love for her wore off. It then had to be counterbalanced by hate in order to level itself out. 3. Jane Seymour: SHE was the breath of fresh air as she did not cause him any tension or anxiety. She probably fed his ego all the time and then, of course, gave him the son. Once she died, she became fossilized in his heeart as the true love. 4. Anne of Cleves: he did not love her but later felt some some guilt about how he treated her in such an unchivlrous way that he later treated her better than he did any woman in his life. 5. Katherine Howard: The midlife crisis infatuation, the classic fool's love. It seams every man must go through this in midlife so we can't really blame him. 6. Katherine Parr: Companiable love 7 out of 11 found this valuable. Do you? |
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FrancePetre |
4. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 3:13 PM EDT
thanks , yes very true ...great input , whenI said "he loved himself" , I meant he was narcisistic but also not sure whether he loved himself ...
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royalfalcon |
5. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 3:16 PM EDT
"yes , thank you for this , however he waited for anne so long , i believe she meant more than fresh air but indeed henri was in love with henri :-)"I 'm at present reading a book by Derek Wilson called In The Lion's Court. (It is actually down as the next book to be read in the Book Study). He came out with an interesting statement He said that if it had just been down to lust that Henry felt for Anne he had at his disposal a host of bribes and threats that he could have employed with Anne and her family. which could have delivered Anne into his arms. Rochford and Norfolk would have settled for titles, lands and influence and would have advised their kinswoman accordingly. Anne for all her outspoken opinions did not have total control over her destiny. He says the ultimate decision to marry was Henry's. He wanted Anne to be his wife and he thought that they would be happy and he most certainly also hoped that they would have sons together. As for the question "which wife did Henry Love the most" I think it is impossible to answer. Henry was a great romantic he seemed to have an idealistic view of love. It seems he could love but was ultimately disappointed when his wives could not live up to the high pedestal he had placed them on. I think Jane is mainly revered because she provided him with a son and heir and then died before he had time to fall out of love with her. 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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royalfalcon |
6. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 3:51 PM EDT
HeverRose I think you have given an excellent analysis of Henrys relationship with each of his wives. However you mentioned that Henry was disloyal to everybody he had loved male and female There is an exception who immediately springs to mind - Charles Brandon, he remained close to Henry until his death. The king even forgave Brandon for marrying his sister without permission. When Brandon died Henry paid for his funeral and had him buried at St George's Chapel Windsor. I have seen his tomb!
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HeverRose |
7. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 4:15 PM EDT
Thank you Royalfalcon ( btw, great new pic!!) Yes. You are right about Charles Brandon. He is the only one. I would love to know more about their relationship, like what the rapport was ( did they treat each other as equals, did Charles cowtow to Henry, or was he honest, did they argue, was it a deep freindship or were they just superficial boon companions? ) It probably was the most successful relationship Henry had.
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HeverRose |
8. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 4:17 PM EDT
"thanks , yes very true ...great input , whenI said "he loved himself" , I meant he was narcisistic but also not sure whether he loved himself ...Thanks...Henry on the couch would be really really interesting for sure. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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royalfalcon |
9. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 4:56 PM EDT
Hi Sasha - thanks for your compliment on my new icon. I thought it was time I had a new one.. I too would be fascinated to know more about Henry's relationship with Charles. I think it was more than superficial because of the length of their friendship. Also the fact that Henry paid for a decent funeral for him. Of course Henry had known Charles since his childhood. Charles Brandon's father was standard bearer to Henry's father Henry VII at the battle of Bosworth and had died defending Henry Senior. Maybe that created a special bond between them that lasted all their lives.
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LadyTudorsFan |
10. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 8 2011, 5:23 PM EDT
LOL yeah I agree - his relationship with Charles was the most successful... :) I too saw Charles Brandon's tomb - he is buried in St.George's Chapel in Windsor Castle not that far away from Henry himself and Jane Seymour (who both were quite surprisingly hidden away, basically someone had to point them out or I wouldn't have noticed!).I think Henry's love life reflected the age too - in his day, he had to marry and have sons. He obviously like women, but had to do things the traditional way. Whereas, if he was around now, he'd probably be Peter Stringfellow. Do you find this valuable? |
freya9 |
11. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 9 2011, 8:10 AM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 9 2011, 8:12 AM EDT
I agree with Royalfalcon that Henry wouldn't have gone to so much trouble to marry Anne if he didn't love her. Eric Ives points out that although Henry started investigating the validity of his marriage to Catherine about the same time as the start of his interest in Anne initially he just wanted her as a mistress. Their feelings for each other grew over a year to the point he wished to marry her. Certainly Wolsey who was the most involved in the King's great matter had thought that Henry intended to marry a French princess. Apart from Anne's failure to produce a son and her personality I think another reason things turned sour so soon was that they had to wait so long. They seemed to have this huge anticipation of this perfect marriage so of course the reality was going to be a let down.
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MsSquirrly |
12. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 9 2011, 9:57 AM EDT
Love being a word that has many meanings and connotations to different people and at different times in their lives....I would say Henry loved all his wives, the most, at the time he loved them.As a young man, I think Henry greatly admired Katherine of Aragon. She was very attractive as young girl with her red gold hair, upturned nose and cupids bow mouth. But not only her looks, she was the epitome of regality. Born of two sovereigns and groomed to be a queen from birth. She knew what it meant to be a monarch. As Henry grew into his 30's and not only was Katherine's beauty fading but in his eyes, she was failing to give him a son....he started to resent her. A series of mistresses started, even a year after they were married but then there was Bessie Blount who he was said to be "in the chains of love" and she provided him with a son. I think he was very happy with the arrangement of a queen and mistress Bessie for a few years but more and more he wanted a legitimate son. Along comes Anne, who was not only attractive but witty and intelligent. Her attraction was not just based on a lust as some people say. I think he enjoyed her company for many reasons. The courtship which lasted more than 6 years with no pregnancy and no mistress attests to that. She was his grand passion but of course, as with a lot of things the fantasy is better than the reality....and reality hit their relationship hard. I even think Jane was a fantasy he fell in love with. She was "the perfect Tudor wife" but she was manufactured as such and eventually I don't doubt he would have taken mistresses. She would turn a blind eye to them and he would have been happy because she provided the son he craved. Another fantasy he fell in love with was the portrait of Anne of Cleves. Poor woman was a fish out of water in the english court....and again didn't live up to Henry's fantasy. Contd. 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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MsSquirrly |
13. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Oct 9 2011, 10:12 AM EDT
| Post edited: Nov 15 2011, 9:06 AM EST
Kathryn Howard hit him the hardest because he really believed her adoration was love. Starkey talks of Kathryn saying she thought of him as God on earth....so like a groupie of today's pop stars, he probably could see her awe at being so close to him. She had given him a new lease on life and then it was all dashed. He wanted to kill her himself. Chapuys who had seen him with all his wives, said, this wife's betrayal (as Henry saw it) was the worst and hit him the hardest.Catherine Parr was not just a nurse or companion. I think Henry was genuinely attracted to her looks, personality and intelligence as he had been with Anne Boleyn. This was a woman who was much sought out...she had been married twice and Thomas Seymour who was considered attractive by many was enamoured with her. I think Catherine stood out at court and Henry wanted the most attractive woman who could also spar wits with him. He was getting sicker of course at this time, but I think he loved her the most.....at that time. Sorry this is a long one. LOL My conclusion is....Henry loved....love. He enjoyed that first flush of falling for a new woman the most. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
meezzy |
14. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Nov 11 2011, 9:06 AM EST
Well said, MsSquirrly! I personally believe that he loved them each in their own special way and there's no method to measure who he loved the most, since life and people are ever-changing. For example, I'm more capable of loving another person now then I was as a child.
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Lady_Amber |
15. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Dec 27 2011, 10:07 AM EST
"1. KoA: At first he loved her as a young boy loves an older more exotic woman, but he got bored quickly once he saw what younger fresher flowers were available..What an amazing reply, you've got it spot on! Do you find this valuable? |
howardfan |
16. RE: wich wife do you think henri loved the most ?
Feb 23 2012, 2:59 AM EST
Jane seymour as she died after bringing henry's long awaited son into the world so she was basically immortalized by him and he asked that he be buried next to her as he did claim even when he was with Kate parr that Jane was his true love. He did love anne but it was all in passion I believe and with KOA I believe they were both very young and thrust into marriage due to the tragic circumstances (henrys brother arthur dying before he got to officially bed his young wife katherine)
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