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MsSquirrly, you make a good point about the lonliness of the king.. It must have been incredibly hard for Henry to be a real person. I read in David Starkey's book on the young Elizabeth that Henry and his children did not have one meal together until about 1543 or so, when he was married to Katherine Parr. Think about that!!! he couldn't even be a father and have dinner with his children. He had many of the uncommon pleasures, like mistresses and jousting, but few of the usual ones that make people really happy."

"I actually believe that Anne did love Henry in the end. Certainly not at the start of their relationship, However, when she got angry about his affairs I do not believe that was just because she was concerned about her position I thinkj that she was jealous because by this time she did have emotional feelings for him."

"I agree with you to the extent that we have to always remember that Henry was "just a man". The problem with Personal Monarchy like Dictatorship means that rule at the whim of one man very, very rarely is without huge problems. When you look at how promising Henry's rule began, we can see that a lot of people were very hopeful for the future. He had a knack for choosing very capable ministers who really advanced England on the world stage....however, as you stated, he could let his emotions get in the way of good decision making. All the while, believing that God had appointed him so his decisions were sanctioned by God. In a lot of ways, you have to feel sorry for him, despite having everything in life that he could ever want materially, he never seemed to achieve true contentment & satisfaction in his relationships. He became very paranoid toward the end of his life..and probably rightly so , that everyone had a personal agenda. Life had taught him that. All his ministers and wives to some extent had their own reasons for wanting royal favour whether it was wealth, power or position.....And in the end, who really cared about the man? He must have felt very lonely at times, even while being constantly surrounded by people."

"I don't think that what Henry wanted did not exist. Like I said before I think he was very lonely. I think mostly what he we wanted was real companionship. But he may have thwarted himself by believing so fully in his own supremacy of all those around him...of course we have to remember that he did seem to have something really good with Jane Seymour. Unfortunately for him she died tragically...if it had not been for that though....history could have been very different."

"yes I agree with both of you. Henry really does come across as a hopeless romantic. He loved all the courtly love and chivalry aspect of pursing a new love but once he had consummated that love, he seemed to lose interest. Perhaps it was all about his fantasy/ideal woman? Problem for him, was that it was probably rare if someone showed their true selves to him. Or maybe when they did, he preferred his romanticized image of them.

Jane did the same thing as Anne....or was used as she was, by her family. The difference was that I think Jane went into it with her eyes open...knowing that if she refused to be the king's mistress and only his wife that he may go for it. I am not sure that Anne knew that. But at a certain point she must have realised, after staying away from court and receiving all those letters, that Henry was not going to give up. Once he finally offered her marriage, everything changed. I think Jane had an agenda, just as much as Anne. The wife I think really broke his heart was Kathryn Howard. Perhaps the only wife with the smallest agenda (girls just wanna have fun). Chapuys who had seen him through 4 previous wives even said that he had never seen him so affected. Probably Kathryn was in awe of Henry and he saw that as love. She was like a groupie in a lot of ways LOL. Poor Henry, you really do have to feel sorry for him. Catherine Parr seems to have been a genuinely "nice" person.....intelligent, attractive and fashionable. She had her agenda too however. I am sure Henry knew that but by then had learned to live with the fact that there is no one who doesn't ...when you are king."

"Apparently, Shakespeare had based his play Othello on Henry VIII's mariage to Katherine Howard. The way Henry reacted after hearing of Katherine's infidelity made him similar to Othello - he was going to get his sword and kill her himself. He then had Francis Dereham executed out of envy as Francis had "spoiled her"."