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Discussion: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?Reported This is a featured thread

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quenejane
quenejane
Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 1:16 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 1:16 PM EDT
she was young and ripe, she could have a least gotten knocked up by Culpepper...was she damaged goods? 1  out of 8 found this valuable. Do you?    

Reggie19
1. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 1:37 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 1:37 PM EDT
There is no definitive proof that she did indeed sleep with Culpepper, whereas she did admit to having slept with Francis Dereham due to a precontract between the two, in other words, they intended to marry.

That being said though, I've often wondered why the question of Kathryn's fertility has never come up in the past. Where Henry VIII is concerned, he might have been at fault, but with Dereham, who was much younger, there is no such excuse.

I do tend to believe Kathryn was sterile, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support it in anything I've read concerning her. Her inability to conceive children by Henry AND by Francis are the only two things that lead me to this conclusion. Though, if her use of contraceptives in the form of inserting stones into her vagina is to be believed (I do not give any credence to this rumour), then it seems plausible she did the damage to herself.
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quenejane
quenejane
2. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 2:11 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 2:11 PM EDT
"There is no definitive proof that she did indeed sleep with Culpepper, whereas she did admit to having slept with Francis Dereham due to a precontract between the two, in other words, they intended to marry.

That being said though, I've often wondered why the question of Kathryn's fertility has never come up in the past. Where Henry VIII is concerned, he might have been at fault, but with Dereham, who was much younger, there is no such excuse.

I do tend to believe Kathryn was sterile, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support it in anything I've read concerning her. Her inability to conceive children by Henry AND by Francis are the only two things that lead me to this conclusion. Though, if her use of contraceptives in the form of inserting stones into her vagina is to be believed (I do not give any credence to this rumour), then it seems plausible she did the damage to herself."
You've answered my question! Thanks!
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freya9
freya9
3. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 2:34 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 2:34 PM EDT
Primitive condoms and douches were available in Tudor times and of course the rhythm method. Perhaps Katherine was a combination of careful and lucky. It seems that she was caught before she could do anything with Culpepper. Also given Henry's illness, weight and age it's possible that they never had full sex either. 5  out of 6 found this valuable. Do you?    
LadyTudorsFan
LadyTudorsFan
4. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 6:08 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 6:08 PM EDT
I just think that she was incredibly lucky! :) 0  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
AJBates
AJBates
5. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 6:59 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 6:59 PM EDT
I would think she and Derham would have been a bit careful, I'm sure she having grown up the way she had would have learn a few ways to not get pregnant, because I think both of them knew precontract or not they both would have been in serious trouble if she got pregnant.

And most likely Henry wasn't really up to par in being able to get her pregnant as much as he would like to believe. And since she was a Howard none of them had much problem conceiving so there isn't any family history to go off of.
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juliana-angela
juliana-angela
6. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 7:22 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 7:24 PM EDT
It could have been due to a combination of factors.

It may be that Katheryn was infertile or that her fertility was low. And Henry was ageing, his sperm count would have been declining and he may also have suffered from the erectile problems mentioned by George Boleyn at his trial.

Her relationship with Dereham was short-lived, probably confined to a few sexual encounters. They may have taken some measures to prevent pregnancy, as Freya said, or it could have been luck.

As far as Culpepper is concerned, Katheryn swore on the scaffold that she had not committed adultery. I have always wondered if she interpreted this in a very literal way, and whether she and Culpepper had practised coitus interrruptus or confined themselves to sex acts other than vaginal intercourse, thereby ensuring that there was no risk that she would bear an illegitimate child as well as salving her conscience.

And Katheryn was still young when she was executed, probably barely twenty - just entering the period of highest fertility for the average female.
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MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
7. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 9:08 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 9:08 PM EDT
I think Juliana nailed this with her post. As for Katheryn using small stones....this is not out of the bounds of possibility. It is known that during Tudor times, barrier methods like wooden blocks, small stones and beeswax were used as cervical caps. 5  out of 6 found this valuable. Do you?    
Conyle
Conyle
8. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 10:01 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 10:01 PM EDT
"she was young and ripe, she could have a least gotten knocked up by Culpepper...was she damaged goods?"
I don't think anyone who can't "get knocked up" is damaged goods.
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henry's7thwife
henry's7thwife
9. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 16 2011, 11:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 16 2011, 11:49 PM EDT
"I don't think anyone who can't "get knocked up" is damaged goods. "
Absolutely! That is the kind of thinking that kept women in the kitchen for centuries.
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EleanorLuke
EleanorLuke
10. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 17 2011, 5:15 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 17 2011, 5:15 AM EDT
"I think Juliana nailed this with her post. As for Katheryn using small stones....this is not out of the bounds of possibility. It is known that during Tudor times, barrier methods like wooden blocks, small stones and beeswax were used as cervical caps."
That sounds so painful :O
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LadyTudorsFan
LadyTudorsFan
11. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 19 2011, 8:16 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 19 2011, 8:16 PM EDT
"I think Juliana nailed this with her post. As for Katheryn using small stones....this is not out of the bounds of possibility. It is known that during Tudor times, barrier methods like wooden blocks, small stones and beeswax were used as cervical caps."
Didn't they also tie around their wrists the bottom of a hare and the testicles of a weasel?
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freya9
freya9
12. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 20 2011, 12:56 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 12:56 PM EDT
It might not have stopped the human females getting pregnant but it certainly would have worked for the feamle weasels ;) 1  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
LadyTudorsFan
LadyTudorsFan
13. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 20 2011, 8:59 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 8:59 PM EDT
"It might not have stopped the human females getting pregnant but it certainly would have worked for the feamle weasels ;)"
Lol true! I guess it would have worked on the human females too by scaring their partners away altogether! Failing that, some Cow Bells. :)
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jrmslady09
jrmslady09
14. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 20 2011, 9:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2011, 9:42 PM EDT
Good grief no matter how or why she didn't one could believe that it was partly that one may not want to and if she couldn't then that might have had something to do with the fact even if you are supposedly young and healthy you still might not able to conceive a child. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
LadyTudorsFan
LadyTudorsFan
15. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Aug 21 2011, 7:17 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 21 2011, 7:17 PM EDT
I think it is also because maybe simply her and Culpepper didn't do the deed. David Starkey believes that a lot was made of their relationship, but all they really did was sit and talk all night - I can't say I'm convinced with this, but who am I to argue with David Starkey. :) Do you find this valuable?    
EszterErdo
EszterErdo
16. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Sep 3 2011, 10:54 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 3 2011, 10:54 AM EDT
Well maybe she could not have any children...not necessarily because she was sterile, there could have been other things (Rh-/+ issues for instance) and I think those days getting pregnant AND successfully giving birth to a child was harder (Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn had many miscarriages themselves).
I think, or I imagine Katherine Howard wanted to have a child by the king, she must have realized that giving birth to a son would secure her position, since she had no family of Royal blood ( like Catherine of Aragon, not that it helped her much, or Anne of Cleves, who was the sister of a Duke...ok, that did not help her either) to support her.
She must have known that the King's love for any of his wives was short-lived and changeable and it was focused on the attempt of securing the continuity of the Tudor family on the throne.
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ElizabethWoodville
ElizabethWoodville
17. RE: Why do you think Catherine Howard didn't conceive?
Sep 5 2011, 5:53 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2011, 5:53 PM EDT
She didn't conceive because she is said tohave shoved a pebble up her internal organ and womb in order to not get pregnant everytime she slept with her admirers or her womb was too small... Do you find this valuable?    

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