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Location: King Henry VIII Controversies
Discussion: "May we dig up Henry?"
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AJBates |
40. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Feb 26 2011, 9:39 AM EST
"I don't think our knowledge is a good enough reason to disinter his body. I have to be honest I have always wondered about the archeological digs in Egypt...those are graves too. How long do you have to be dead before the sanctity of your final resting place is up for grabs?Egypt is a different place because those tombs were normally looted almost as soon as they sealed, if it was a joint tomb they waited for the second person to die to loot it, some cases it would stay normal for 10 years or so before being looted but it happened all the time, they would unwrap the body for the gold charms everything. In some cases people even tried to destroy the mummy, as is the case of Nefertiti's mummy, and as a precaution the high priests actually went into the tombs and removed the bodys from the coffins (easier to say then me botching the spelling of the real word to point of no recognition) and placed them all in a hidden cache to be protected. The only reason we had one intact tomb left of Tut's was because of it being covered by I think the flooding in the Valley, and the fact that he was such a nobody King that it wasn't worth finding. If you study or really enjoy Ancient Egyptian history as I do you would know that half the things in his tomb didn't even belong to him, they were his father's things from Armana and his coffin is a known fact wasn't made for him but was made for a far greater king. I am of the belief with a few others that thing it was made for Nefertiti who after her husband Akenaten's death could have made herself the Pharaoh Smenhere, (Botched that name too, I just woke up so I'm too tired to look it up). I think it makes more sense that it was her instead of someone else, esp since it's believed that the pharaoh who followed that was ,Pharaoh Ay, was her father. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
MsSquirrly |
41. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Feb 26 2011, 10:20 AM EST
You know, I understand a lot of people have religious beliefs and that is the reason most are opposed to the idea. But they exhume bodies all the time for forensic tests. Surely, as long as the body is treated with respect and re-interred, it is just like any other forensic investigation?
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juliana-angela |
42. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Feb 26 2011, 11:35 AM EST
"You know, I understand a lot of people have religious beliefs and that is the reason most are opposed to the idea. But they exhume bodies all the time for forensic tests. Surely, as long as the body is treated with respect and re-interred, it is just like any other forensic investigation?"Normally, forensic scientists would only exhume bodies if it was thought that someone had been murdered, and I have never heard of any suggestion of that with Henry. Or, perhaps, to investigate a mass grave (such as those in Spain from the 1930's) to see if they can discover the identities of victims who would often have surviving close relatives - again, this doesn't apply to Henry. And these graves would be much more recent with a much greater chance that samples would provide the information being sought. The original theory posted was so speculative that any advantages which might be gained would seem to be considerably outweighed by the disruption and offence caused by disinterment. The disease postulated apparently has some symptoms which were not displayed by Henry in his lifetime and there are other, more plausible, theories which would explain his increasingly difficult behaviour as he grew older. Do you find this valuable? |
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offwithherhead |
43. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Feb 26 2011, 11:37 AM EST
"You know, I understand a lot of people have religious beliefs and that is the reason most are opposed to the idea. But they exhume bodies all the time for forensic tests. Surely, as long as the body is treated with respect and re-interred, it is just like any other forensic investigation?"As opposed as I am to digging up Henry, I can actually appreciate digging up someone for forensic reasons, because when done for this reason, some things might actually change because of it....a criminal might be caught or convicted...a murder might be proven etc. I just fail to see what digging up Henry would accomplish. Maybe accepting it for some reasons and not for others makes me seem like I'm switch hitting on the subject, but I just believe there should be: 1. a good reason to do it, 2. know that the outcome for doing it would change or accomplish something important. It kind of creeps me out that our curiosity would be the only reason to disturb his final resting place. Really interesting subject and it is great to hear so many opinions! 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
royalfalcon |
44. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Feb 26 2011, 12:16 PM EST
| Post edited: Feb 26 2011, 4:24 PM EST
I can accept that sometimes it is necessary to exhume a body for forensic tests. For example in the case of suspecting foul play. This does not fall into that category it is just curiosity to try and prove a theory. It could not change anything that has happened way back in ttime. Also it could set a dangerous precedent, with many more tombs being disturbed in the interest of research!!.
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MsSquirrly |
45. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Feb 26 2011, 3:24 PM EST
"I can accept that sometimes it is necessary to exhume a body for forensic tests. For example in the case of suspecting four play. This does not fall into that category it is just curiosity to try and prove a theory. It could not change anything that has happened way back in ttime. Also it could set a dangerous precedent, with many more tombs being disturbed in the interest of research!!."lol I know you meant foul play but that made me smile. Well they are actually investigating the tombs of Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk and Henry Fitzroy at Framlingham at the moment. Some graves have no markers and some have lost their markers and people don't even know that there were bodies buried in certain locations. Especially poor people ....and no one complains about that. It is because Henry is a king that we have this feeling that we shouldn't disturb him. I have to say, my personal opinion is that once we die, the body is just a shell. "dust to dust, ashes to ashes etc" and the person is no longer in it. But I recognize that other people have different beliefs. I mean, I think that the body should be treated with the utmost respect and re-interred. But think of all the mummies you have seen in museums? They are bodies and yet we put them in glass cases and gawk at them. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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royalfalcon |
46. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Feb 26 2011, 3:43 PM EST
Haha! you are quite right I did mean foul play - blushes bright red!!How dare they investigate the tomb of Thomas Howard - I play him in my role play group lol!! Getting back to the topic under discussion, I personally cannot see the Queen agreeing to this at all. I would be very surprised (and disappointed) if she did. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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juliana-angela |
47. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Feb 26 2011, 5:34 PM EST
"What is being done at Framlingham is very different from what the scientists wanted to do at Henry's tomb. The tombs of Norfolk and Richmond were moved from the dissolved Thetford Priory to the St. Michael's Church and fragments of the original tombs have recently been rediscovered, The aim is to see exactly how the tombs were re-assembled and whether any changes were made rather than to test the bodies inside, and it does not appear that the archeologists are intending to do anything to the actual tombs. Instead, they will use technology from the Space Research Centre at Leicester to scan them. Here is an article about it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/jan/25/research-space-technology-history 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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MsSquirrly |
48. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Mar 1 2011, 12:45 PM EST
"Getting back to the topic under discussion, I personally cannot see the Queen agreeing to this at all. I would be very surprised (and disappointed) if she did. "I agree with you that I cannot see the Queen allowing it. That being said....I don't see it as an awful thing to make forensic tests on any body that was buried 500 years ago, let alone Henry. But thats just my personal opinion. Many museums contain human remains and I feel that the length of time involved is enough to be able to do it. I think if it happened, he should be re-interred and not put in a museum however. Even tho I was just at the Mary Rose Museum where they actually took a skull from one of the drowned sailors and reconstructed his facial features which was really fascinating. Do you find this valuable? |
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royalfalcon |
49. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Mar 1 2011, 1:12 PM EST
The fact that the body was buried around 500 years ago has no bearing on my feelings about it being disturbed.. I just feel it is totally wrong unless it is for a very important reason, and for me this simply does not fall into that category and never will. I would not agree with this procedure who ever the person was, but the fact that the person in question is a former King of my Country makes it all the more distasteful. to me.
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freya9 |
50. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Mar 5 2011, 7:15 PM EST
I was reading this thread and it made me think of a passage in the fictional novel Wolf Hall concerning Henry. In it Henry has a dream where Arthur comes to him and looks disapointed. Henry remembers and regrets that Arthur's funeral was not fitting for a Prince. Cromwell and Cranmer comfort the King telling him that it is the living that are concerned with burials, the dead are beyond such things. I wonder what Henry looking down would think about this ? I can understand why people don't want to disrespect the dead but is this real concern for the departed or our own sensibilities ? On the subject of Henry having Kell positive blood. One of the things I admire about Henry was the way he coped with a painful, ulcerated leg with dignity whilst ruling a country. If Henry did have Kells he would only rise in my esteem by being someone who coped with two serious illnessness, one of which was unknown, but still managed to accomplish so much.
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DuchessofSuffolk |
51. RE: "May we dig up Henry?"
Mar 5 2011, 7:34 PM EST
From the point of view of a historian and museum professional, the implications of how much we could learn by doing this is so vast that I am almost ashamed to admit that it totally dwarfs any moral reprehension I feel.
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