Location: Catherine Parr

Discussion: "New" Portrait of CatherineReported This is a featured thread

Showing 10 posts
GoldenAged.ER
GoldenAged.ER
"New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 1 2010, 2:23 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 2:23 PM EDT
The oil painting that someone mentioned as being identified by Susan James, where was this information coming from? It is now being identified by others as her. The Historic Royal Palaces has it in the collection at Hampton Court and is identified as her by an unknown artist, possibly a follower of Hans Eworth. The portrait comes from the collection of Appleby Castle in Cumbria. BBC News identifies it as her back in 2009. Even the History channel identifies it as Katherine. The portrait is the first one in the box at the bottom. Here is a link to a more detailed page about it: http://www.historicalportraits.com/InternalMain.asp?ItemID=1200 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
1. RE: "New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 1 2010, 2:30 PM EDT | Post edited: Nov 1 2010, 2:30 PM EDT
"<span>The oil painting that someone mentioned as being identified by Susan James, where was this information coming from? It is now being identified by others as her. The Historic Royal Palaces has it in the collection at Hampton Court and is identified as her by an unknown artist, possibly a follower of Hans Eworth. The portrait comes from the collection of Appleby Castle in Cumbria. BBC News identifies it as her back in 2009. Even the History channel identifies it as Katherine. The portrait is the first one in the box at the bottom. Here is a link to a more detailed page about it: http://www.historicalportraits.com/InternalMain.asp?ItemID=1200</span>"
If you look to the bottom of that link you posted it says:
"Kateryn Parr, by Susan E. James (London 1999) p 421 fig 30, as showing the Queen c. 1546"
Do you find this valuable?    
GoldenAged.ER
GoldenAged.ER
2. RE: "New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 2 2010, 11:40 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 2 2010, 11:40 AM EDT
It says Literature, doesn't say anything about that being the official source, but that's not the only reference I used -- like I said.. it is recognized at Hampton Court and is in that collection for Henry's wives and is listed on the Official Historic Palaces site as being identified as Catherine. BBC News and the UK History Channel also confirms this. So how is this portrait not 'worldly recognized'? Your source being? Do you find this valuable?    
MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
3. RE: "New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 2 2010, 11:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 2 2010, 12:12 PM EDT
I think you will find that the only source for all those media outlets is Susan James book....therefore only one source does not make it recognized world wide. That, plus the fact that, that one portrait differs quite markedly from the other 3 most famous Catherine Parr Portraits especially as regards the nose and hair colour. I don't think we will ever know 100% about most of the portraits from that era ...some 500 years later as many are copies of portraits that were made later rather than from life. Probably Holbein's or Horenbout's miniatures are the closest we will get to the actual life images of Henry's queens. Do you find this valuable?    
Brooke9/7
Brooke9/7
4. RE: "New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 3 2010, 7:08 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2010, 7:09 AM EDT
Interesting! I have seen the four widely-recognized Catherine Parr portraits, but though this one seems vaguely familiar, I am not certain I've seen it in any books or studies of CP. That is probably only because historians tend to use only the most attributable portraits. The Master John full-length and the William Scrots half-length with her wearing a hat come to mind. It is interesting that the Master John and Scrots portraits are the only pictures of her that appear to depict one and the same sitter.

As per the article in the original post, the "new" image is very likely a later copy of a lost original by Hans Eworth c. 1543-1547, not a contemporary / from life depiction. According to the article, it is known from documnetary evidence that Eworth in fact did paint Catherine Parr during her tenure 1543-47.

From the article:
"Records also show that Katherine was painted by Hans Eworth… Such patronage was an indication of Katherine’s desire to support the new, for Eworth had only arrived in England c.1543. His earliest known work is dated 1549. The almost enamel-like flesh tones and bright colouring of the cheeks in this portrait, together with the distinctive modeling of the eyes, may suggest that the artist of this picture was influenced in some way by Eworth’s now lost original.

Katherine wears in this portrait is similar to that recorded in her inventories, not to mention the intelligent depiction of Katherine’s slight physique, further suggests that it is based on a contemporary ad vivum example."

1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Brooke9/7
Brooke9/7
5. RE: "New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 3 2010, 7:19 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2010, 7:53 AM EDT
Horenbout Miniature (unknown date)
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/CatherineParr2.jpg

Master John (1545)
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/CatherineParr.jpg

Attributed to William Scrots (1545)
http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/yunk_en/c_parr.jpg

Unknown Master - Lambeth Palace (1530s)
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Parr,Catherine03.jpg
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Kittywake09
Kittywake09
6. RE: "New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 3 2010, 9:05 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2010, 9:05 AM EDT
Can always really on your Brooke your knowledge of portraiture knows no bounds. Thanks for all of the above. Do you find this valuable?    
Brooke9/7
Brooke9/7
7. RE: "New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 3 2010, 9:52 AM EDT | Post edited: Nov 3 2010, 9:52 AM EDT
Ha! My knowledge knows very certain and real bounds my darling! Thanks a million for your kind comments, though. I do really love my early modern and mannerist portraits...I was in heaven during beardedlady's 12 Codpieces of Christmas contest last year (guess the portrait based on just the codpiece of the sitter!). Hilarious! 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
GoldenAged.ER
GoldenAged.ER
8. RE: "New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 12 2010, 7:57 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2010, 7:57 PM EST
"I think you will find that the only source for all those media outlets is Susan James book....therefore only one source does not make it recognized world wide. That, plus the fact that, that one portrait differs quite markedly from the other 3 most famous Catherine Parr Portraits especially as regards the nose and hair colour. I don't think we will ever know 100% about most of the portraits from that era ...some 500 years later as many are copies of portraits that were made later rather than from life. Probably Holbein's or Horenbout's miniatures are the closest we will get to the actual life images of Henry's queens."
Right I guess I just do not understand then why if you go to Hampton Court and even go to their site online they have this as her official portrait in the 'Henry's Women' exhibit. As you are not allowed to take pictures in that room when I went I cannot provide a picture to show you what I'm talking about, but it is online here: http://www.hrp.org.uk/MediaPlayer/ViewPlaylist.aspx?PlaylistId=49

So even though the Historic Royal Palaces recognizes it we here on the American Tudor Wiki are not? On the HRP site it states: Portrait of Kateryn Parr painted by an unknown artist, possibly a follower of Hans Eworth, in the 16th century. Oil on panel. Collection of Appleby Castle.

As Brooke says below -- which reiterates what I've been saying that it was most likely a redone portrait by Han Eworth which I don't think was read when responding.

Do you find this valuable?    
GoldenAged.ER
GoldenAged.ER
9. RE: "New" Portrait of Catherine
Nov 12 2010, 8:00 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 12 2010, 8:00 PM EST
From the article which states: "There are five recorded certainly known portraits of Katherine Parr that survive. The first is a miniature formerly in the collection of Horace Walpole (now at Sudeley Castle), which is probably by Lucas Hornebolt. The second and third, in the National Portrait Gallery, are a full-length (once erroneously called Lady Jane Grey) by Master John, and a half-length by an unknown artist. A fourth (Lambeth Palace) shows a young Katherine in the 1530s. And now the present example represents a fifth, and shows the Queen towards the end of her life.

And yet, Katherine’s own records show that she commissioned at least more than a dozen portraits of herself; The contrast between Katherine’s commissions and those extant portraits gives a useful indication of how little survives from the sixteenth century – in this case less than a third. The Queen’s chamber accounts show that John Bettes the Elder painted up to seven miniatures – none survive – and nor apparently do any other miniatures by Hornebolt, aside from the possible Sudeley example.

Records also show that Katherine was painted by Hans Eworth, the Dutch artist considered the closest thing to Holbein’s heir . Such patronage was an indication of Katherine’s desire to support the new, for Eworth had only arrived in England c.1543. His earliest known work is dated 1549. The almost enamel-like flesh tones and bright colouring of the cheeks in this portrait, together with the distinctive modeling of the eyes, may suggest that the artist of this picture was influenced in some way by Eworth’s now lost original. The accomplished handling of the detail in Katherine’s out-turned collar, and the delicate portrayal of her hair, is also reminiscent of Eworth’s Mary Neville, Lady Dacre. That the jewelry Katherine wears in this portrait is similar to that recorded in her inventories......" ETC.
Do you find this valuable?    

Related Content

  (what's this?Related ContentThanks to keyword tags, links to related pages and threads are added to the bottom of your pages. Up to 15 links are shown, determined by matching tags and by how recently the content was updated; keeping the most current at the top. Share your feedback on WikiFoundry Central.)