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sweetsister
sweetsister
Ghost Costumes
Jun 23 2010, 11:10 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2010, 11:10 AM EDT
This probably means nothing but did anyone notice that KOA and Jane both had a sort of head veil, Anne did not is this because KOA and Jane were virgins when they married but Anne was not (her relationship with Thomas Wyatt on the show, Percy in real life). Also the way Mary was dressed very like her mother perhaps to reinforce her Spanish roots since she did end up marring a Spaniard. Elizabeth on the other had had an outfit that was very much her own and foreshadowed the type of dress worn during her reign. Do you find this valuable?    
Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
1. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 23 2010, 4:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2010, 4:19 PM EDT
I took Anne not wearing a veil to just indicate a lack of respect she had for Henry's situation. She is not wearing a veil, she had a gown that was 80% black and 20% white and the back of her hair was down; I think she was showing as much respect as she was forced to show but wasn't going all out for him. That is how I took it.
I also hated what Elizabeth was wearing in the scene; I dont care if it was Elizabethan attire, children don't look good in those gawd awful ruffs and the entire ensemble did not look right on her. Elizabeth being so young should have had her hair down as well.
I think Jane had the most beautiful outfit btw, and Katharine's hairstyle made her head look too big.
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Neta07
Neta07
2. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 23 2010, 5:16 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2010, 5:17 PM EDT
"This probably means nothing but did anyone notice that KOA and Jane both had a sort of head veil, Anne did not is this because KOA and Jane were virgins when they married but Anne was not (her relationship with Thomas Wyatt on the show, Percy in real life). Also the way Mary was dressed very like her mother perhaps to reinforce her Spanish roots since she did end up marring a Spaniard. Elizabeth on the other had had an outfit that was very much her own and foreshadowed the type of dress worn during her reign."
For me I think the no veil represented her beheading, I also thought it represented the way their hair was when the died as KoA and Jane had their hair down and Anne had her hair up in a coiff. I also thought the veils represented that Henry mourned for them (Henry did mourn while reading KoA's letter after she died).

On Elizabeth - fashions didn't change that drastically when Mary was Queen but in Elizabeth's reign they did. Also during and prior Mary's reign Mary prided herself as being her mothers daughter and she would've remembered how her mother held herself and the unique way she dressed. Whereas Elizabeth prided herself on being her fathers daughter and her mother was almost non-existant to her, so she wouldn't of known in which way her mother held herself and the unique way she dressed.
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sweetsister
sweetsister
3. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 23 2010, 6:21 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2010, 6:26 PM EDT
Thinking back on it now it would have been interesting if they each had something exactly the same (like a crown) to show they were each Queen and each Henrys wife (and as far as he was concerned replaceable) Do you find this valuable?    
sweetladyjaneseymour
sweetladyjaneseymour
4. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 23 2010, 7:58 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2010, 7:58 PM EDT
I don't get why Jane was wearing Katherine Howard's execution dress, or was that perhaps meant to be symbolic? I loved the veils. I assume Jane had a white to symbolise her virginity and also because of how she died. I'm pretty sure her ladies wore white veils or hoods as a sign that she died in childbirth. Do you find this valuable?    
Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
5. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 23 2010, 8:00 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2010, 8:00 PM EDT
If I remember they all did have a tiara on their heads. Do you find this valuable?    
sweetsister
sweetsister
6. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 23 2010, 8:39 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 23 2010, 8:39 PM EDT
"If I remember they all did have a tiara on their heads. "
your'e right but I was thinking of something like same tiara/crown on each wfie
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Tudoriality
Tudoriality
7. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 26 2010, 1:13 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 26 2010, 3:02 AM EDT
"This probably means nothing but did anyone notice that KOA and Jane both had a sort of head veil, Anne did not is this because KOA and Jane were virgins when they married but Anne was not (her relationship with Thomas Wyatt on the show, Percy in real life). Also the way Mary was dressed very like her mother perhaps to reinforce her Spanish roots since she did end up marring a Spaniard. Elizabeth on the other had had an outfit that was very much her own and foreshadowed the type of dress worn during her reign."
It can mean nothing or quite a lot. It is up to each viewer I guess. From my limited knowledge of veils and unlimited enthusiasm for the ghost scenes, I have thought of this myself, probably too much, but hey I loved the last episode and I feel that the three ghost scenes were a gift.

My thoughts on black veil, no veil and white veil:
K: Black veil or “Veil of profession”. May symbol her long time as queen. Black is the colour used when solemn vows are made, and she always kept her vows.
J: White veil or “Veil of probation”. May symbol her short time as queen, or that she didn’t get a chance to show what a queen she could have been as she never got past the early/probation time. Considering what she said, the white colour may symbol that she wouldn’t or regretted having made her vows to her husband, as white is very far from black.
K&J: Both had very long veils which is often used during final/solemn statements. K’s last word is that she still is his true wife, and J’s is that he has killed Edw.

A veil may also represent intervening on behalf of others (Veil of Virgin Mary/Intercessions).
K&J: Talked of how he had sometimes treated M&Edw. bad.
A: Got him to confess this, when he says he wish he could have loved E more. This can be seen in the less sad goodbye between H&E, than that of H&M.

K&J were catholics and Anne was protestant, so can also be to (continued in next post)
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Tudoriality
Tudoriality
8. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 26 2010, 1:14 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 26 2010, 1:14 AM EDT
(cont from previous post) so can also be to illustrate the similarities between K&J and their difference to Anne. Not just in their religious views, but also because Jane took very good care of Mary, while Anne was almost on the opposite to Jane on this. Jane gave Mary jewelry that had belonged to Katherine. Mary said to Jane that she thought Katherine was helping during the birth of Edward. K&J had always been proud of their children, while Anne said that she first now was so proud of her. So a lot of similarities and bonds between K&J.

Veil may symbol protection and mourning:
K: Stands somewhat discreetly between her daughter and husband in a sort of protective way. K & Mary both wear almost the same black veil. Same veil, same protection?
J: Keeps Edward from approaching his father, while Edward looks up to his father sort of to ask what is this? J covers Edward with her veil when she walks away with him, to protect him?
K&J: Mary would be unhappy all her reign, and Edward would die young.

A: Said/indicated that her daughter is clever and can stand up for herself, and needs no protection. She merely phrames Elisabeth, almost like to phrame her portrait and gives a glimpse into the future of E1. Elisabeth is the only of the children in these scenes not to show any warm feelings for H or try to approach him. A would know how her daughter felt towards her father and know Elisabeth wouldn’t approach her father. Her daughter’s reign would be known as the golden age, so no need for a veil for mourning.
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Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
9. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 26 2010, 1:42 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 26 2010, 1:42 AM EDT
Which queen's gown was everybody's favorite? I adored Jane's veil but someone somewhere mentioned that it looked like she was wearing the same or a similar gown which Catherine Howard was executed in? Either way I still think it was beautiful. For some reason Katharine of Aragon's gown is hard to see and notice details. Do you find this valuable?    
QueenAnne30
QueenAnne30
10. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 26 2010, 8:04 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 26 2010, 8:04 AM EDT
"Which queen's gown was everybody's favorite? I adored Jane's veil but someone somewhere mentioned that it looked like she was wearing the same or a similar gown which Catherine Howard was executed in? Either way I still think it was beautiful. For some reason Katharine of Aragon's gown is hard to see and notice details. "
Anne's was my Favourite by far i think it was just so different to the other two, Jane was wearing KH dress and i looked better on KH, was it just me or did jane look pregnant, KOA's didnt do much for me.
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queencaroline
queencaroline
11. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 26 2010, 1:28 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 26 2010, 1:28 PM EDT
"This probably means nothing but did anyone notice that KOA and Jane both had a sort of head veil, Anne did not is this because KOA and Jane were virgins when they married but Anne was not (her relationship with Thomas Wyatt on the show, Percy in real life). Also the way Mary was dressed very like her mother perhaps to reinforce her Spanish roots since she did end up marring a Spaniard. Elizabeth on the other had had an outfit that was very much her own and foreshadowed the type of dress worn during her reign."
This is discussed in another thread, but the majority consensus is that Anne was a virgin when she met Henry VIII. That's not to say she didn't have fun with Percy--but it's unlikely she slept with him.

The lack of veil not only denoted Anne's general difference from the other two--she was much more prominent, and less respectful to Henry--it also indicated her beheading. Notice that she was also the only wife wearing a choker.

PLUS: CofA was wearing a traditional black widow's veil. She was the only one of the three ghosts to have been a widow--Arthur's. Jane's white veil was symbolic of the pedestal of purity Henry kept her upon.

As for whose outfit was my favorite's--Anne's. She didn't look like a sad/nice wife. She looked life herself. Loved the tiara and the lack of veil. It added to her "stick it to him" speech.
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hohumpigsbum
hohumpigsbum
12. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 26 2010, 1:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 26 2010, 1:43 PM EDT
"

The lack of veil not only denoted Anne's general difference from the other two--she was much more prominent"
I was hardly say she was more prominen. And Katherine of Aragon definatley had her moments, especially concerning the huge argument she and Henry had because of his affair with Elizabeth Fitzwalter.
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Jes89
Jes89
13. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 26 2010, 2:59 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 26 2010, 2:59 PM EDT
I loved Anne's gown, but not for the moment, she looks like she was still alive, fighting with Henry about another mistress or something... I loved Catherine's tiara, and i Jane was too simple for me, but they were more to the moment than Anne.

I read about the costumes saying that they made special clothes for the scene, so i don't think Jane's dress is the same of Kathryn.
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queencaroline
queencaroline
14. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 26 2010, 7:36 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 26 2010, 7:36 PM EDT
"I was hardly say she was more prominen. And Katherine of Aragon definatley had her moments, especially concerning the huge argument she and Henry had because of his affair with Elizabeth Fitzwalter."
She was more prominent on the show. We saw very little of Catherine, comparatively, on season 2--and Natalie was on for the most episodes. So on the show, she had the largest role. She was a big player in most of the plotlines for both of the first seasons.
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MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
15. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 26 2010, 7:52 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 26 2010, 7:52 PM EDT
"This probably means nothing but did anyone notice that KOA and Jane both had a sort of head veil, Anne did not is this because KOA and Jane were virgins when they married but Anne was not (her relationship with Thomas Wyatt on the show, Percy in real life). Also the way Mary was dressed very like her mother perhaps to reinforce her Spanish roots since she did end up marring a Spaniard. Elizabeth on the other had had an outfit that was very much her own and foreshadowed the type of dress worn during her reign."
IMO this was Henry's brain ghosts so that was how he saw them. Katherine as the pious wife and Jane as the "good" wife....Anne, the "rebel" wife.
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Boleynpatentpending
Boleynpatentpending
16. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 27 2010, 2:02 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 27 2010, 2:02 PM EDT
"This probably means nothing but did anyone notice that KOA and Jane both had a sort of head veil, Anne did not is this because KOA and Jane were virgins when they married but Anne was not (her relationship with Thomas Wyatt on the show, Percy in real life). Also the way Mary was dressed very like her mother perhaps to reinforce her Spanish roots since she did end up marring a Spaniard. Elizabeth on the other had had an outfit that was very much her own and foreshadowed the type of dress worn during her reign."
I find it amusing that Anne wore a dress decorated with caterpillars. "Hi it's me and the bugs that are decomposing my body. And how are you?"
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Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
17. RE: Ghost Costumes
Jun 27 2010, 6:05 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 27 2010, 6:07 PM EDT
It had catepillar's on it? This is how much I suck at noticing details.
On Anne's costume page, there are pictures of her gown outside the episode and with better lighting, I wish there were pictures like that of Katharine of Aragon's because it is so much black on black that you can't see any details at all.
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