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Boleynpatentpending |
20. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jun 30 2010, 12:00 AM EDT
"For some reason I REALLY hated Joss Stone as AOC ... I love Anne's character, but man I really despised her on the show :( "How come? Was it the actress or the way she was written? Do you find this valuable? |
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Anne'sCurls |
21. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jun 30 2010, 1:51 AM EDT
"But honestly, how can we know who was straight and who was gay in the past? Even now some people stay in the closet. When it was a hanging offense just about everyone stayed in the closet. So can we ever really say it's historically inaccurate to portray someone as gay in historical fiction?"So is it ok to say Queen Victoria was Jack the Ripper because no one can prove it wasn't her? Can I say the Lindbergs killed their baby because, it could perhaps maybe happened? History is full enough with drama, there is no reason to make crap up just to push an agenda, sell tickets, make money, cause controversy etc. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Elliemental |
22. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jun 30 2010, 6:30 AM EDT
"Wasn't there, in real life, a criticism of E.S. that he was "too nice" during the Regency? "Yes, someone criticised him for being too liberal. I forget who it was now, though. Do you find this valuable? |
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emmalane |
23. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jun 30 2010, 8:47 AM EDT
| Post edited: Jun 30 2010, 1:54 PM EDT
"I know there are allot of Surrey fans but I'm afraid I just didn't take to him. Maybe I've watched too many old Hollywood films but I felt his persona and line delivery to be too rough (or low class for lack of a better explanation) I've always seen the aristocracy more "genteel" . Even In 1969 Lion in Winter Peter O Tools portrayal of Henry felt right to me , he was a bit more "gruff" but it was a "messier" time in history and I feel he carried out the part of Henry well, but we are her to talk about the Tudors and in my opinion the Seymour's appeared more genteel than Surrey."According to the Henry Howard history page, he could be a bit rough and did go to jail at least a couple of times for fighting and vandalism which is not very uppercrust behaviour. And David O'Hara's Scottish accent did come through very often though I would not characterize it as low class [nor would most Scots, I suspect]. However I am not convinced that the Tudor era was necessarily less rough than previous eras since Henry is largely credited with bringing the beginnings of the Renaissance to the English court; that refined upper crust gentility that we know from Merchant-Ivory films may have begun more around the Restoration era. I think the portrayal missed the mark somewhat because of his age: he went from being a boy in season 1 to someone older than the Seymours by season 4, plus it made his 'enfant terrible' behaviour unseemly for his supposed maturity: more spoiled than proud. A man in his late twenties like the real Henry Howard can still be fighting for his place and recognition but a 45 year old just looks rash and violent. I also did not like the odd 'relationship' he was shown to have with Anne Seymour: it made no sense that she would suggestively invite him to be 'good friends' and then turn waspish when he thought she would be open to more. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Boleynpatentpending |
24. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jun 30 2010, 10:21 PM EDT
"So is it ok to say Queen Victoria was Jack the Ripper because no one can prove it wasn't her? Can I say the Lindbergs killed their baby because, it could perhaps maybe happened? History is full enough with drama, there is no reason to make crap up just to push an agenda, sell tickets, make money, cause controversy etc."Pshaw. No one would ever say Queen Victoria was Jack the Ripper, and if they did, and made a movie about it, a high caliber actor like Johnny Depp would never star in it! No way would Heather Graham appear in such a slanderous project and for sure not Robbie Coltrane or Susan Lynch! Oh...um...what? Oh. Never mind. ;p But seriously folks, I don't consider choosing to portray someone as gay as being in the same category as portraying them as a baby-killer or one of history's most notorious serial killers. There may be some who feel homosexuality is morally wrong and therefore perceive a portrayal of homosexuality as a slanderous, but I don't. Furthermore, while 5-10% of the population is gay, my guess is that, 5-10% of the population is not made of of serial killers and baby-murderers. So, portraying Mary Tudor the Elder as murderer? Uncool. Portraying George Boleyn as gay? Nothing wrong with that. Portraying GB as a rapist? Bad. 3 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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periwimkle |
25. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jun 30 2010, 10:36 PM EDT
"So is it ok to say Queen Victoria was Jack the Ripper because no one can prove it wasn't her? Can I say the Lindbergs killed their baby because, it could perhaps maybe happened? History is full enough with drama, there is no reason to make crap up just to push an agenda, sell tickets, make money, cause controversy etc."Actually it was once thought that Queen Victoria`s grandson, Prince Albert Victor, "Eddie", the Duke of Clarence and Avondale was "Jack the Ripper". Do you find this valuable? |
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queencaroline |
26. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jun 30 2010, 11:54 PM EDT
"But honestly, how can we know who was straight and who was gay in the past? Even now some people stay in the closet. When it was a hanging offense just about everyone stayed in the closet. So can we ever really say it's historically inaccurate to portray someone as gay in historical fiction?"If there was any real credibility to the George Boleyn is gay rumors, chances are that someone would have proven it long ago. You research Anne--as everyone has--and you learn about all of George's dirty laundry. It's just that George being gay is becoming a common misconception, thanks to Philippa Gregory... And frankly, I don't want to see anything that Ms. Gregory put out as "fact" in the media again. Again, it's nothing homophobic: it's more of an accuracy thing. I'm okay with playing around with some bits of a person's character. But I kind of think that being completely wrong about someone's sexuality--George was actually a womanizer, and Thomas Tallis probably would have been too God-fearing to act on any homosexual feelings, even if he did feel them--is a bit... slanderous. Or irritating. We know that da Vinci--and quite possibly Michelangelo--were gay, despite the fact that it was an offense punishable by death. So I feel as if we can be pretty sure that well-known figures like Tallis and George would have been "outed" by now. But at any rate, I have way more of a problem with George being a rapist. I'd rather see George frolicking about in a field of meadows and daisies with Smeaton AND Tallis than watch him portrayed as a rapist. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Anne'sCurls |
27. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 12:23 AM EDT
"Pshaw. No one would ever say Queen Victoria was Jack the Ripper, and if they did, and made a movie about it, a high caliber actor like Johnny Depp would never star in it! No way would Heather Graham appear in such a slanderous project and for sure not Robbie Coltrane or Susan Lynch! Oh...um...what? Oh. Never mind. ;pDon't try to portray me as homophobic because I brought up a valid point. IF you cant prove crap then dont spout it out about a historical person. Portraying someone as gay who there is no proof was gay is the same as portraying someone as a murderer when there is no proof, the identical factor being it is a lie! The same way the fictional historical portrayal of Anne as an incestuous b---- is a lie! But people insist on using it just because it makes them feel special and important. 7 out of 9 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Anne'sCurls |
28. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 12:28 AM EDT
"Again, it's nothing homophobic: it's more of an accuracy thing. I'm okay with playing around with some bits of a person's character. "Exactly, if I was writing a historical fiction book on Freddy Mercury (my husband btw) I wouldnt rewrite history making him straight just to make me feel better. The same as I wouldn't write a historical fiction book about Elie Wiesel and say he was a Catholic, just because I think it sounds nice. BTW queen caroline has it officially been said that da Vinci was gay? I've heard the theories but I never heard if it was true or not. And I don't remember if it was Michelangelo or Donatello who I heard was gay. :runs off to google: 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DuchessofSuffolk |
29. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 9:43 AM EDT
"How come? Was it the actress or the way she was written?"The actress, I feel like she could have done a lot more with the character - I wish they had written into her a bit so we could have really known her but Stone's accent killed me and I found her very flat and dull. Which is a shame, I adore AoC through the research I have done :) Do you find this valuable? |
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MsSquirrly |
30. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 10:37 AM EDT
| Post edited: Jul 1 2010, 10:57 PM EDT
I have to agree with Anne'sCurls, I don't believe it has anything to do with homophobia. The idea that George Boleyn was a gay comes from a poem by George Cavendish called Metrical Visions where he talks of his "unlawful lechery" and Retha Warnicke has expounded on this to speculate that he and the men around Anne were gay. (see the poem here : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/George+Boleyn+-+Historical+Profile ) First of all, George was a known "womanizer" which I think most people will agree, is not what gay men are usually known for. Secondly, Cavendish referred to Henry's unlawful lechery too and I don't believe any credible historian believes Henry to be gay. Its just a characterization with no substance. So its more to do with how his character was portrayed. Also, rape is a violent act and George was not known for such violence unlike the Culpepper character. Also as time went on George was known as very much into religious debate and the reform cause. He did confess to the sins of vanity and pride but the rape scene really does blacken his name. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Boleynpatentpending |
31. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 12:22 PM EDT
"Don't try to portray me as homophobic because I brought up a valid point. IF you cant prove crap then dont spout it out about a historical person. Portraying someone as gay who there is no proof was gay is the same as portraying someone as a murderer when there is no proof, the identical factor being it is a lie! The same way the fictional historical portrayal of Anne as an incestuous b---- is a lie! But people insist on using it just because it makes them feel special and important. "I most certainly did not try to portray you as homophobic. Some people think homosexuality is wrong, and while I disagree with them, I don't think it's "bad" for them to think that as long as they don't pass repressive laws or treat gay people badly. People have a right to their opinion. I have no way of knowing what you, or anyone else here, think of gay people. However, I do see a lot of people implying that it's a slur on George Boleyn to show him as gay, and I don't see it as a slur anymore than showing Henry with brown hair instead of red. Your mileage may vary. 1 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Boleynpatentpending |
32. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 12:25 PM EDT
"I have to agree with Anne'sCurls, I don't believe it has anything to do with homophobia. The idea that George Boleyn was a gay comes from a poem by George Cavendish called Metrical Visions where he talks of his "unlawful lechery" and Retha Warnicke has expounded on this to speculate that he and the men around Anne were gay.I've said many times that I think showing George as a rapist was bad. I don't like showing George as gay for one particular reason already mentioned in this thread, that it gives credence to Philppa Gregory. But it doesn't upset me. Frankly, showing Henry as thin in his last year of life upset me a lot more. 2 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Boleynpatentpending |
33. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 12:32 PM EDT
"If there was any real credibility to the George Boleyn is gay rumors, chances are that someone would have proven it long ago. "I don't think the rumor has credibility. But historical fiction is never 100% historically accurate (heck, even history isn't 100% historically accurate). The Tudors outright "changed" a lot of history. They portrayed Princess Mary as having the name Margaret, being far older than Henry, and marrying and "murdering" the King of Portugal. They portrayed Bessie Blount as married when having an affair with the King.They portrayed the women as wearing arcs instead of hoods on their heads. Compared to portraying outright contradictions to known historical facts, portraying something that "might" have been, even though it "probably" wasn't -- and that isn't even a bad thing, as opposed to being a rapist or murderer -- pales in comparison, in my opinion. 2 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Boleynpatentpending |
34. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 12:34 PM EDT
"Actually it was once thought that Queen Victoria`s grandson, Prince Albert Victor, "Eddie", the Duke of Clarence and Avondale was "Jack the Ripper"."The movie From Hell starring Johnny Depp is a pretty entertaining movie that portrays this theory, if you're interested. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Anne'sCurls |
35. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 2:15 PM EDT
"The actress, I feel like she could have done a lot more with the character - I wish they had written into her a bit so we could have really known her but Stone's accent killed me and I found her very flat and dull. Which is a shame, I adore AoC through the research I have done :)"Joss' accent did leave a lot to desire. I wish they would have gotten 1. A better actress who could have a more convincing accent 2. An actual German actress 3. Just pull a Marie Antoinette and screw the German accent all together. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Anne'sCurls |
36. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 2:17 PM EDT
"The movie From Hell starring Johnny Depp is a pretty entertaining movie that portrays this theory, if you're interested."Albert was not Jack the Ripper in From Hell. It was a doctor/surgeon who worked for Prince Albert and was killing the women who knew about his marriage to a Catholic prostitute. Do you find this valuable? |
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queencaroline |
37. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 3:29 PM EDT
"I just took a class that featured da Vinci pretty heavily, and it seems like we are getting pretty close to being as sure as we can be that he was gay. It's never going to be 100%, because he's so secretive... But then, that discretion is indicative of the fact that he really did have something to hide. At the very least, he was bisexual, even if he never acted on it. (A lot of historians now believe that one of the reasons why he wrote in mirror-style is because he was afraid of being caught. Which is really quite sad.) I haven't researched Michelangelo that well, but I'm pretty sure that some inquisitors were suspicious for a while. Do you find this valuable? |
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Boleynpatentpending |
38. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 1 2010, 9:49 PM EDT
"Albert was not Jack the Ripper in From Hell. It was a doctor/surgeon who worked for Prince Albert and was killing the women who knew about his marriage to a Catholic prostitute. "I know. I was referring to Queen Victoria. The movie implies she wanted the doctor to bump off the prostitutes. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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jaclynb731 |
39. RE: Portrayal's you did not like
Jul 2 2010, 12:20 AM EDT
The portrayal I did not like and why was unquestionably both of the janes.Looks-wise Annabelle was too tall and too pretty for the role of jane. Anita of course is a pretty actress but she was small like the real jane and yes the tudors takes liberity with looks but she was pretty in an understated plain jane like way. Another thing i don't understand, we all know that Jane was coached by the Catholic fraction and spoke ill of the queen to the king yet not one show has used any of this fact and shown jane in this role. I think the tudors should of done so...they take so much liberty with so many other facts about tudor life and figures why not write this in? I could go on but those are the top two reasons. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |