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Discussion: Henry's parentsReported This is a featured thread

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willsomers
willsomers
Henry's parents
May 31 2010, 10:49 AM EDT | Post edited: May 31 2010, 10:49 AM EDT
I think Henry V111 must have been a one-off other than his six wives as Henry V11, was nothing like henry who seemed a very forgiving man, sent hardly anyone to the block even his pretenders eg simnel and warbeck, but his mother Elizabeth tudor who I think was a more forceful and short tempered person may not have been so lenient, if not kept in line by her husband , so perhaps henry took after her? 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
TheLadyTudor
TheLadyTudor
1. RE: Henry's parents
May 31 2010, 10:58 AM EDT | Post edited: May 31 2010, 10:58 AM EDT
"I think Henry V111 must have been a one-off other than his six wives as Henry V11, was nothing like henry who seemed a very forgiving man, sent hardly anyone to the block even his pretenders eg simnel and warbeck, but his mother Elizabeth tudor who I think was a more forceful and short tempered person may not have been so lenient, if not kept in line by her husband , so perhaps henry took after her?"
Actually Elizabeth of York was very much a serene, gracious person - she didn't have much of a temper. And, besides, she barely had any influence over her husband at all - that role was filled by My Lady the King's Mother, Magaret Beaufort.
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AugustRose
AugustRose
2. RE: Henry's parents
Jun 1 2010, 7:05 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 1 2010, 7:09 AM EDT
I always thought Henry VIII had a lot of his grandfather, Edward IV, in him. He also had aspects of Henry VII too, but was flashier and less practical than his father. He was also a less hands on ruler, especially in the early part of his reign, and was definitely not one to micro-manage. But he did emulate Henry VII in certain other monarchial practices, though again how he did it was more dramatic.

Ditto on what TheLadyTudor said about Elizabeth of York. Sometimes I think it's weird that she was the daughter of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville who both seem...well "serene" is not an adjective that comes to mind when wanting to describe them. Maybe Elizabeth took more after her grandmother Cecily Neville, idk.
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juliana-angela
juliana-angela
3. RE: Henry's parents
Jun 1 2010, 8:52 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 1 2010, 8:52 AM EDT
"Actually Elizabeth of York was very much a serene, gracious person - she didn't have much of a temper. And, besides, she barely had any influence over her husband at all - that role was filled by My Lady the King's Mother, Magaret Beaufort."
Yes, I can see more resemblance in character between Henry and Margaret Beaufort than between Henry and Elizabeth of York.

Margaret was a domineering and forceful sort of person, very unlike the gentle Elizabeth.

And, as AugustRose said, Henry was very like his grandfather Edward, down to marrying a commoner for love (or lust), and being rather greedy and self-indulgent. He looked like him as well, especially in his height and bulk - and as with Edward, the latter increased drastically as he hit middle age!
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ElizabethWoodville
ElizabethWoodville
4. RE: Henry's parents
May 22 2011, 11:18 AM EDT | Post edited: May 22 2011, 11:18 AM EDT
"I always thought Henry VIII had a lot of his grandfather, Edward IV, in him. He also had aspects of Henry VII too, but was flashier and less practical than his father. He was also a less hands on ruler, especially in the early part of his reign, and was definitely not one to micro-manage. But he did emulate Henry VII in certain other monarchial practices, though again how he did it was more dramatic.

Ditto on what TheLadyTudor said about Elizabeth of York. Sometimes I think it's weird that she was the daughter of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville who both seem...well "serene" is not an adjective that comes to mind when wanting to describe them. Maybe Elizabeth took more after her grandmother Cecily Neville, idk. "
totally!

Henry VIII took after his grandfather!

Look:
They both married Commoners(Edward IV to Elizabeth Woodville, Henry VIII to Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Katherine Howard and Catherine Parr)

They were both thought to be handsome and tall

But Edward IV kept his looks although he never reached middle age and Henry didn't.

Henry VIII was unpopular but Edward IV was
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lettice
lettice
5. RE: Henry's parents
May 27 2011, 1:56 PM EDT | Post edited: May 27 2011, 1:56 PM EDT
Temperament is only partially inherited. IMO, Henry's upbringing, environment & lifestyle did more to shape his personality. He was raised as Duke of York, educated with his sisters & pampered as a child.Only when his brother died, was he groomed to be a future King & he was already 11 years old. As a young King, Wolsey carried the true burden of state which allowed Henry to play.
As he matured he was pretty much accustomed to having his own way & became capricious & volatile. His sporting injuries & over eating turned him to an obese, cranky old man who became the tyrant responsible for so many loss of lives.
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HeverRose
HeverRose
6. RE: Henry's parents
May 28 2011, 8:28 AM EDT | Post edited: May 28 2011, 9:33 AM EDT
In addition to their very different personalities and temperament, Henry VIII had two things his father did not have: inherited wealth and a cultural shift to a more vain glorious age. Henry VII amassed a great deal of wealth from nothing, and left it all to his son, which made the situation very different for the new King Hnery VIII than it was when his father came to the throne. It is the difference between people who grew up in the Great Depression and those who are born into the good times. You look at life and money very differently. In addition, there was a different culture for Kings and court life in 1509 than there was in 1485. The Renaissance had advanced, the world was more 'worldly" and personal image and showy public relations were more important. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
royalfalcon
royalfalcon
7. RE: Henry's parents
May 29 2011, 4:26 AM EDT | Post edited: May 29 2011, 4:28 AM EDT
HeverRose and Lettice, I think that you have both raised very interesting points I feel that the upbringing of the two men was so very different it is almost impossible to compare them. Henry's father litterally had to fight for the crown on the battlefields of Bosworth. He spent his youth in exile and his future was filled with uncertainty. He held onto his money because he knew what it was like not to have any. His son was in all probability very pampered. He was brought up with his sisters who adored him and by all accounts he was already exhibiting that famous charm and charisma. Also the court of King Henry VIII was almost a world apart from the one that his father had known.. So though they do seem to have had very different personalties I think that their upbringing would have accounted for this to a certain extent in any case. Do you find this valuable?    
LadyTudorsFan
LadyTudorsFan
8. RE: Henry's parents
May 29 2011, 6:53 AM EDT | Post edited: May 29 2011, 6:53 AM EDT
I think one thing Henry VII and Henry VIII did have in common though was that they both seemed to be very suspicious characters. Once Henry VII did get the throne, he was very wary of those in his court and their loyalties and his son as we saw later on in his reign demonstrated similar paranoia to his wives - to Anne Boleyn and the accusations made against her, to Catherine Howard and then even to Catherine Parr who he believed suspicious of heresy. Do you find this valuable?    
HeverRose
HeverRose
9. RE: Henry's parents
May 29 2011, 9:09 AM EDT | Post edited: May 29 2011, 9:15 AM EDT
"I think one thing Henry VII and Henry VIII did have in common though was that they both seemed to be very suspicious characters. Once Henry VII did get the throne, he was very wary of those in his court and their loyalties and his son as we saw later on in his reign demonstrated similar paranoia to his wives - to Anne Boleyn and the accusations made against her, to Catherine Howard and then even to Catherine Parr who he believed suspicious of heresy."
I don't think Henry was paranoid. Paranoia is more of an ongoing feeling that people are out to get you or do you wrong. It seems more to me that Henry was quite oblivious to the three situations with the three wives UNTIL his advisors (Cromwell, Cranmer and Writhesley (sp?) confronted him with their cases against these women. What happened then is that Henry's lack of a "loyalty gene" kicked in and he turned against them immediately. I should say here that with Catherine Howard, rightfully so, but the other two should have been given the benefit of the doubt. Catherine Parr was only able to save herself because she managed to reach him and grovel. The other two, once the case was presented, he never talked to or saw again.

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LadyTudorsFan
LadyTudorsFan
10. RE: Henry's parents
May 30 2011, 9:06 AM EDT | Post edited: May 30 2011, 9:06 AM EDT
"I don't think Henry was paranoid. Paranoia is more of an ongoing feeling that people are out to get you or do you wrong. It seems more to me that Henry was quite oblivious to the three situations with the three wives UNTIL his advisors (Cromwell, Cranmer and Writhesley (sp?) confronted him with their cases against these women. What happened then is that Henry's lack of a "loyalty gene" kicked in and he turned against them immediately. I should say here that with Catherine Howard, rightfully so, but the other two should have been given the benefit of the doubt. Catherine Parr was only able to save herself because she managed to reach him and grovel. The other two, once the case was presented, he never talked to or saw again.

"
Yeah I guess looking at it like that, it definitely contrasts father and son. I do also get the impression that the father ruled with his head, but the son ruled with his heart? Henry VII married Liz of York to keep the peace, but Henry VIII married Anne Boleyn because he loved her whatever the state of the country's peace afterwards.
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WilesWales
WilesWales
11. RE: Henry's parents
May 30 2011, 9:41 AM EDT | Post edited: May 30 2011, 9:41 AM EDT
Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were hardly commoners. They were first cousins, and descendants of the Howards. The Howards were the one of the most powerful noble families in England at the time. Anne the daughter of Boleyn and Lady Howard and Anne's uncle, the Duke of Norfolk at her trial, was was a noble as as they get. Catherine Howard's father was a Howard, making Lady Howard, Anne's Mother, sister to Catherine's father. Thus doth a family maketh... 0  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
HeverRose
HeverRose
12. RE: Henry's parents
May 30 2011, 11:20 AM EDT | Post edited: May 30 2011, 2:33 PM EDT
"Yeah I guess looking at it like that, it definitely contrasts father and son. I do also get the impression that the father ruled with his head, but the son ruled with his heart? Henry VII married Liz of York to keep the peace, but Henry VIII married Anne Boleyn because he loved her whatever the state of the country's peace afterwards.
"
I think that very few sons are " chips off the old block," you know, very much like their father. People are just too different and unique, even within a family. You will inherit looks or body type, but it is more complicated with personality traits. You can "become" like your father, or mother, by imitation, though, provided the parent's influence ( either negative or positive) is very strong. I do think, as I said above, that the difference in wealth and court culture accounted for a lot of their respective behaviour and attitude towards everything.
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ElizabethWoodville
ElizabethWoodville
13. RE: Henry's parents
Nov 30 2011, 9:34 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 30 2011, 9:34 PM EST
"Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were hardly commoners. They were first cousins, and descendants of the Howards. The Howards were the one of the most powerful noble families in England at the time. Anne the daughter of Boleyn and Lady Howard and Anne's uncle, the Duke of Norfolk at her trial, was was a noble as as they get. Catherine Howard's father was a Howard, making Lady Howard, Anne's Mother, sister to Catherine's father. Thus doth a family maketh... "
Actually they were...
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ElizabethWoodville
ElizabethWoodville
14. RE: Henry's parents
Nov 30 2011, 9:38 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 30 2011, 9:38 PM EST
"Actually they were..."
The Howard's only spanned back to 1480s were John Howard practically a loyal Yorkist and nobody just decided to support Edward IV, for his loyalty Edward IV made him a duke... Anne and Catherine's Grandfather... And Anne Boleyn's father was a merchant's son... So what if Their uncle is the Duke? Elizabeth Woodville's uncle was the ruler of Luxemborg and she still is a commoner...
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littleone15
littleone15
15. RE: Henry's parents
Feb 21 2012, 7:35 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 21 2012, 7:35 PM EST
I totally agree with you. Even in his portraits he looks more like Edward IV then his own father. And Elizabeth of York had a pleasant demeanor and lived very much under the shadow of Margaret Beaufort.
It's interesting how, if you look at portraits of Queen Mary I later in her life, she looks like the portraits and statues of Margaret Beaufort!
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