Location: DESCENDANTS of the Tudors

Discussion: Direct Descendant of Henry VIIReported This is a featured thread

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kralstonebert
kralstonebert
Direct Descendant of Henry VII
May 27 2010, 9:09 AM EDT | Post edited: May 27 2010, 12:42 PM EDT
From Henry VII and Elizabeth of York---Margaret Tudor (dau) of Scotland married Archibald VI Douglas --Margaret Douglas (dau) married Lord Thomas Howard--Robert Howard (son) married Philippa Buxton--John Howard (son) married Elizabeth Lock--Matthew Howard (son) married Anne Hall-- Cornelius Howard (son) married Elizabeth Gorsuch--Lois Howard (dau) married Adam Shipleigh-- Robert Shipley (son) married Elizabeth Stevens--Charles Shipley (son) married Margaret unknown--Amon Shipley (son) married unknown--James Shipley (son) married Eleanor Burnworth-- Alexander Shipley (son) married Mary Elizabeth Bear--James Shipley (son) married Wealthy Ann Johnson-- Byron Shipley (son) married Alvina Clausen--Mayme Shipley (dau) married John F Miskell--Living Miskell (dau) married James Ralston-- Living Ralston (son) married Living Hebert--and then I WAS BORN! :)

So... I am the GGGGGGGGGGGGGG Grandaughter of Henry VII Tudor.

This is what I just found- I am investigating to make sure it is correct :)
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Keyword tags: Tudor descendants
Conyle
Conyle
1. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
May 27 2010, 10:20 AM EDT | Post edited: May 27 2010, 10:20 AM EDT
You have a ancestor named "Wealthy Ann". That's kind of cool! I love unusual names. Do you find this valuable?    
CarolineZ
CarolineZ
2. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
May 28 2010, 10:16 AM EDT | Post edited: May 28 2010, 10:16 AM EDT
That is SO COOL! My sister is a Mormon and therefore done geneology research. So far, looks like all my ancestors were pretty humble folk. (Of course, who knows what they would have been given the right circumstances ala Gray's Elegy in a Country Churchyard!) Do you find this valuable?    
kralstonebert
kralstonebert
3. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
May 28 2010, 12:13 PM EDT | Post edited: May 28 2010, 12:13 PM EDT
"That is SO COOL! My sister is a Mormon and therefore done geneology research. So far, looks like all my ancestors were pretty humble folk. (Of course, who knows what they would have been given the right circumstances ala Gray's Elegy in a Country Churchyard!)"
CarolineZ- have you checked out familysearch? the church of the LDS has a website---http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

it's pretty fun :)
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GoldenAged.ER
GoldenAged.ER
4. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
May 28 2010, 1:45 PM EDT | Post edited: May 28 2010, 1:45 PM EDT
Where exactly did you find your information because there is no evidence that Margaret Douglas, at least that I have found, that she had a son with Lord Thomas Howard -- she was basically condemned for that match by her own family and sent to the Tower.

I only ask because for a long time there was a branch of our family thought that we were either directly related to Margaret through this line of Howards or through the other line of Howards that lead to Katherine Howard's father, Lord Edmund Howard by way of Matthew Howard and Anne Hall's same son only with different relations. Mathew Howard that married Anne Hall was the son of a different line of Howards.

It's not correct, sorry to burst your bubble - you can look it up in these resources: Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage, Baronetage & Knightage, 107th edition, 3 volumes (Wilmington, Delaware, U.S.A.: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 2003), volume 2, page 1742. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 107th edition.
2) G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), volume I, page 158. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage. 3)Charles Mosley, editor, Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 106th edition, 2 volumes (Crans, Switzerland: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 1999), volume 1, page 1282. Hereinafter cited as Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 106th edition. 4)Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume I, page 82. 5) Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Family: A Complete Genealogy (London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 239. Hereinafter cited as Britain's Royal Family.
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GoldenAged.ER
GoldenAged.ER
5. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
May 28 2010, 1:46 PM EDT | Post edited: May 28 2010, 1:46 PM EDT
There is no evidence to support John HOWARD and Elizabeth LOCK, having a son Matthew. Their marriage date (correctly 1607, not 1606) and the birth dates of their known children would make it highly unlikely that Matthew of VA was a child of this couple. There is also no evidence to support that John's father Robert HOWARD was a child of Lord Thomas HOWARD and Lady Margaret DOUGLAS. The foundation of the theory by James E. Moss (originator of the theory) was based on a 1714 coat of arms purporting to show they had a child. Moss's interpretation was based on a false premise, and no relation between the HOWARD and DOUGLAS families is implied by that arms. Further details under HOWARD-DOUGLAS theory.

http://home.netcom.com/~fzsaund/howarddoug.html
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HalsAngels
HalsAngels
6. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Aug 19 2010, 6:09 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 19 2010, 6:09 AM EDT
Hi, I just found Robert Howard and Philippa Buxton in my tree as well.. Do you know if this information is verified? I found a Theory about it but I am unsure about Solid proof?
Thanks
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GoldenAged.ER
GoldenAged.ER
7. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Oct 4 2010, 9:24 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 4 2010, 9:24 PM EDT
"Hi, I just found Robert Howard and Philippa Buxton in my tree as well.. Do you know if this information is verified? I found a Theory about it but I am unsure about Solid proof?
Thanks"
I got rid of that link as it led nowhere as well. Here try this link -
http://home.netcom.com/~fzsaund/howarddoug.html
For the longest time I thought my Dorsey line had a link back to the Howard's of England -- and then I saw this line as well and thought -- it can't be that easy.. after reviewing it.. I found that website.
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HalsAngels
HalsAngels
8. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Oct 6 2010, 2:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 6 2010, 2:04 PM EDT
"I got rid of that link as it led nowhere as well. Here try this link -
http://home.netcom.com/~fzsaund/howarddoug.html
For the longest time I thought my Dorsey line had a link back to the Howard's of England -- and then I saw this line as well and thought -- it can't be that easy.. after reviewing it.. I found that website."
Cool.. Thanks.. I think I ended up finding that out already and threw it out.. Yeah I can log on also.. :)
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beckyt925
beckyt925
9. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Apr 10 2011, 7:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 10 2011, 7:42 PM EDT
From Henry VII ---Margaret Tudor Consort Scotland, Henry VII--------William Stewart son of Margaret----James Stewart Traquair, son of William Stewart----
Lady, Janet Stewart, daughter of James-----Malcolm Veitch son of Lady, Janet Stewart----James Veitch, son of Malcolm----Nathan Veitch son of James------John Veatch son of Nathan----Ann Veatch daughter John-----Ellender Self Plummer, daughter of Ann----Elias Plummer Sanders, son of Ellender-----Samuel B. Sanders, son of Elias----Mary A. Sanders, daughter of Samuel----Carrie Ada Madden, daughter of Mary---Minnie Pearl Phillips, daughter of Carrie---Preston Carroll Temple, son of Minnie----Rita Rebecca Temple, daughter of Preston....Myself......This makes Henry VII My 15th Great Grandfather
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juliana-angela
juliana-angela
10. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Apr 11 2011, 2:24 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 11 2011, 2:24 AM EDT
I don't think that the first part of that descent works out.

Margaret's only surviving son was James V of Scotland: her other sons James, Arthur and Alexander died young. She didn't have a son named William at all. Her only connection to the Stewarts of Traquair was that her second husband Archibald Douglas, Earl of Angus, had an affair with Jane Stewart, daughter of James Stewart, Laird of Traquair, which produced an illegitimate daughter, Janet Douglas. She married Patrick, Lord Ruthven, who was involved in the murder of David Riccio, secretary of Mary Queen of Scots, and had several children whose descendants survive to this day.

However, if you have a reliably-traced connection to the Stewarts of Traquair, you could still be of royal descent. James Stewart of Traquair, the father of Archie Douglas's mistress Jane, was the grandson of Lady Joan Beaufort, widow of King James I of Scotland, daughter of John of Gaunt and granddaughter of Edward III of England, by her second marriage to James Stewart, 'the Black Knight of Lorne'. James Stewart was the first Laird, but his descendants still live at Traquair, which is the oldest continously inhabited house in Scotland. The current Lady is Catherine Maxwell-Stewart.

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beckyt925
beckyt925
11. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Apr 11 2011, 4:25 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 11 2011, 4:25 AM EDT
I have just started this research and it is through Ancestory.com.... We attending a wedding in Belfast in June and I thought it would be interesting if we could find any family ties in the surrounding areas. It is really interesting and I appreciate your information. I have found quite a few of the names mentioned in your 2nd paragraph in our tree. I need to go back and review the correct connections....seems this lot was quite racy and there are a few illegitimate children making things a little muddy to trace. I wasn't really trying to connect myself to royalty....was expecting quite the opposite ..LOL!!! I will let you know what I find out....More than likely my family was run out of the country for scandelous behavior!!!! 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Nofretete
Nofretete
12. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Apr 11 2011, 5:50 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 11 2011, 5:50 AM EDT
"I have just started this research and it is through Ancestory.com.... We attending a wedding in Belfast in June and I thought it would be interesting if we could find any family ties in the surrounding areas. It is really interesting and I appreciate your information. I have found quite a few of the names mentioned in your 2nd paragraph in our tree. I need to go back and review the correct connections....seems this lot was quite racy and there are a few illegitimate children making things a little muddy to trace. I wasn't really trying to connect myself to royalty....was expecting quite the opposite ..LOL!!! I will let you know what I find out....More than likely my family was run out of the country for scandelous behavior!!!! "
I don't think Ancestry.com is a reliable source for your research. Margaret Tudor most certainly did not have a son named William Stewart. Her first husband was James Stewart, the King of Scots, as juliana-angela has said. After his death she had a messy affair with Archibald Douglas and with him a daughter named Margaret, but he proved unfaithful and she divorced him. Her last husband was Henry Stewart, Lord Methven, and she had only one child with him, a daughter, who died in infancy. If she had had an affair and an illegitimate child this would have caused a scandal across Europe and we would all know about it.

I think on sites like Ancestry.com people sometimes insert invented children to make it look like they are connected to royalty.

Perhaps someone else here can point you to a better source. :-)
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juliana-angela
juliana-angela
13. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Apr 11 2011, 9:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 11 2011, 9:58 AM EDT
" I will let you know what I find out....More than likely my family was run out of the country for scandelous behavior!!!! "
I shouldn't think so - they all seemed to have loads of illegitimate children in sixteenth and seventeenth century Scotland!

It might be worth looking further at the Stewarts of Traquair, if that is where your family connection seems to be. I know very little about ancestry research, but others on the Wiki have mentioned Burke's Peerage online as a good source of information.
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beckyt925
beckyt925
14. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Apr 12 2011, 6:02 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 12 2011, 6:02 AM EDT
Thanks for your help.. What I found out is: Edward, III of England is my 20th Great Grandfather by way of....John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster (1340-1399} Son of King Edward. !!!,---John Plantagenet, 1st Earl of Somerset Beaufort (1371-1410} son of John of Gaunt,------- Joan Beaufort, (1404 -1445) daughter of John Plantagenet, James Stewart Scotland (1430 -1460) Son of Joan -------James Stewart (1451-1458) son of James Stewart Scotland,-----James IV, King of Scotland Stewart (1473-1513) Son of Jamest Stewart-------William Stewart, 2nd of Traquair (1510-1538) son on James IV, King of Scotland-----James Stewart Traquair {1534-1607) son of William Stewart, 2nd of Traquair----Lady Janet Stewart (1555-0606) daughter of James Stewart Traquair---Malcoim Veitch (1590-1630) son of Lady Janet Stewart-----James Veitch (1628-1685) son of Malcolm Veitch----Nathan Veitch (1668-1705) son of James Veitch------John Veatch (1695-1767) son of Nathan Veitch----Ann Veatch (1733-1775) daughter of John Veatch-----Ellender Self Plummer (1750-1775) daughter of Ann Veatch-----Elias Plummer Sanders (1775-1872) son of Ellender Self Plummer-----Samuel B. Sanders (1808-1889) son of Elias Plummer Sanders-----Mary A. Marie Sanders (1852-1918) daughter of Samuel B. Sanders---Carrie Ada Madden (1873-1935) daughter of Mary A. Marie Sanders----Minnie Pearl Phillips (1896- 1980) daughter of Carrie Ada Madden-----Preston Carroll Temple (1923- ) son of Minnie Pearl Phillips----Rita Rebecca "Becky" Temple, Jones (1959- Thank you so much for your help!!!!! Do you find this valuable?    
beckyt925
beckyt925
15. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Apr 12 2011, 6:05 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 12 2011, 6:05 AM EDT
"I don't think Ancestry.com is a reliable source for your research. Margaret Tudor most certainly did not have a son named William Stewart. Her first husband was James Stewart, the King of Scots, as juliana-angela has said. After his death she had a messy affair with Archibald Douglas and with him a daughter named Margaret, but he proved unfaithful and she divorced him. Her last husband was Henry Stewart, Lord Methven, and she had only one child with him, a daughter, who died in infancy. If she had had an affair and an illegitimate child this would have caused a scandal across Europe and we would all know about it.

I think on sites like Ancestry.com people sometimes insert invented children to make it look like they are connected to royalty.

Perhaps someone else here can point you to a better source. :-)"
You are absolutely right...the souce of William was from a public tree who obviously had not done any research.. Thanks for you expertise!!
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juliana-angela
juliana-angela
16. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Apr 12 2011, 9:30 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 12 2011, 9:30 AM EDT
"You are absolutely right...the souce of William was from a public tree who obviously had not done any research.. Thanks for you expertise!!
"
I think that James IV has strayed in by mistake!

I looked up the Stewarts of Traquair and came up with the following:

Edward III m. Phillipa of Hainault
Their son John of Gaunt m. (eventually!) Katherine Swynford
Their son John Beaufort Earl of Somerset m Margaret Holland
Their daughter Lady Joan Beaufort, widow of James I, m as her second husband James Stewart of Lorne
Their son James Stewart Earl of Buchan (1442 - 1499) had an affair with Margaret Murray
Their son James Stewart, 1st Laird of Traquair (1480 - 1513) m. Catherine Rutherford
Their son William Stewart of Traquair (c.1508 - 1540) m. Christian Hay
Their son James Stewart (c1534 -1606) m. Katherine Stewart
Their daughter Janet Stewart (1558-1607) m. John Veitch
Their son Malcolm Veitch, etc

The names and dates from William Stewart of Traquair onwards seem to accord pretty much with what you found.

Traquair House, near Peebles in the Scottish Borders, is open to the public and has a good website, so you might want to take a look at the site if not the house! You might also want to read Ian Mortimer's excellent biography of King Edward III - as he had so many children, a lot of people with English ancestors are descended from him, which the author explains in detail
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dnjsimmons
17. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
Aug 24 2011, 11:10 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 24 2011, 11:10 AM EDT
I found this in my line while researching at the local LDS Do you find this valuable?    

fionabain
18. RE: Direct Descendant of Henry VII
May 9 2012, 12:56 AM EDT | Post edited: May 9 2012, 12:56 AM EDT
Sorry, Margaret Douglas married Matthew Stewart Earl of Lennox, not Lord Thomas Howard. Sorry to spill water! Do you find this valuable?    

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