Location: Charles Brandon, 1st Duke of Suffolk

Discussion: What has he done wrong?Reported This is a featured thread

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Verlah
Verlah
What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 4:02 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 4:02 PM EST
In series 3, we can witness a marriage crisis (or at least the beginning of it) between Charles and Catherine. I wonder what exactly he has done wrong according to Catherine. I mean, he has done nothing wrong, at least not to her. So what's her problem? What do you think? Do you find this valuable?    
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Nofretete
Nofretete
1. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 4:07 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 4:07 PM EST
"In series 3, we can witness a marriage crisis (or at least the beginning of it) between Charles and Catherine. I wonder what exactly he has done wrong according to Catherine. I mean, he has done nothing wrong, at least not to her. So what's her problem? What do you think?"
She didn't want him to kill the rebels. Don't know what she thought he should have done, tell the King that he didn't want to? Fat chance. lol 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
lettice
lettice
2. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 4:19 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 4:19 PM EST
"She didn't want him to kill the rebels. Don't know what she thought he should have done, tell the King that he didn't want to? Fat chance. lol"
So True! King Hal doesn't react well to "no". If your conscience nags you, you have to be willing to risk your life. I don't think Brandon was the type to stand on principle. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Nofretete
Nofretete
3. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 4:25 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 4:25 PM EST
"So True! King Hal doesn't react well to "no". If your conscience nags you, you have to be willing to risk your life. I don't think Brandon was the type to stand on principle."
Where the hell should a 16th century noble have gone anyway, when fleeing from their monarch? Starve somewhere in South Italy? Besides I think Suffolk felt too indebted to Henry not to be loyal. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Verlah
Verlah
4. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 4:32 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 4:32 PM EST
You both are right. It's either obeying Henry, or losing one's own head...
I also think she wasn't too happy about what happened to Cromwell. I presume she is a Protestant in secret, or at least on the way to becoming it. As far as I know, she was a friend of Catherine Parr, who later became Henry's sixth wife. Catherine Parr is said to have been a Protestant herself. Do you find this valuable?    
Maggie-AnneB.
Maggie-AnneB.
5. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 4:55 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 4:56 PM EST
"In series 3, we can witness a marriage crisis (or at least the beginning of it) between Charles and Catherine. I wonder what exactly he has done wrong according to Catherine. I mean, he has done nothing wrong, at least not to her. So what's her problem? What do you think?"
IMO, it started off with when him cheated on her with that French woman. I think that, that's when their marriage went down hill. Then the killing of the Rebels happened, then her seeing him become a person that she didn't know. He became vindictive, conniving and a twister of words/ events. Also, look at the people he chose to associate himself with. I believe that the show is going to have Catherine become the protestant that she was historically, so because of that she may become more distant from Brandon. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Nofretete
Nofretete
6. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 4:57 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 4:57 PM EST
"You both are right. It's either obeying Henry, or losing one's own head...
I also think she wasn't too happy about what happened to Cromwell. I presume she is a Protestant in secret, or at least on the way to becoming it. As far as I know, she was a friend of Catherine Parr, who later became Henry's sixth wife. Catherine Parr is said to have been a Protestant herself."
On the show she is a devout catholic, that is why she did not want the rebels killed. She probably just thought it was distasteful that her husband went after Cromwell, because he wasn't that kind of guy before. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
royalfalcon
royalfalcon
7. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 5:09 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 5:09 PM EST
"You both are right. It's either obeying Henry, or losing one's own head...
I also think she wasn't too happy about what happened to Cromwell. I presume she is a Protestant in secret, or at least on the way to becoming it. As far as I know, she was a friend of Catherine Parr, who later became Henry's sixth wife. Catherine Parr is said to have been a Protestant herself."
Yes, Katherine was a close friend of Catherine Parr. In fact when the former Queen died shortly after giving birth to a baby girl Katherine Willoughby was guardian to the child.

Catherine Parr's was the first royal protestant funeral to take place in England. Lady Jane Grey was the chief mourner. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Nofretete
Nofretete
8. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 5:12 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 5:12 PM EST
"Yes, Katherine was a close friend of Catherine Parr. In fact when the former Queen died shortly after giving birth to a baby girl Katherine Willoughby was guardian to the child.

Catherine Parr's was the first royal protestant funeral to take place in England. Lady Jane Grey was the chief mourner."
I hope they show this in season four, so far their Katherine is nothing like the real Katherine Willoughby. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
9. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 8:13 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 8:13 PM EST
"In series 3, we can witness a marriage crisis (or at least the beginning of it) between Charles and Catherine. I wonder what exactly he has done wrong according to Catherine. I mean, he has done nothing wrong, at least not to her. So what's her problem? What do you think?"
What kind of question is that? Her husband is a murderer and she is supposed to be happy about it? I dont think so, she is one of the last moral characters on the show. Plus he is disgusting her more and more with his behavior like with Cromwell, a character who did nothing to him and whom he gladly watched die. 1  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
10. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 26 2010, 8:14 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 26 2010, 8:14 PM EST
"On the show she is a devout catholic, that is why she did not want the rebels killed. She probably just thought it was distasteful that her husband went after Cromwell, because he wasn't that kind of guy before."
Not only that he went after Cromwell but how he reveled in his death. Do you find this valuable?    
henry's7thwife
henry's7thwife
11. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 27 2010, 2:04 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 27 2010, 2:04 AM EST
We talking about the show here, or history. They seem to be two diverse things ... Do you find this valuable?    

Reggie19
12. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 27 2010, 12:06 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 27 2010, 12:06 PM EST
"We talking about the show here, or history. They seem to be two diverse things ..."
Definitely the show... Do you find this valuable?    
Nofretete
Nofretete
13. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 27 2010, 12:10 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 27 2010, 12:10 PM EST
"Not only that he went after Cromwell but how he reveled in his death. "
Well its not like she saw any of that. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Maggie-AnneB.
Maggie-AnneB.
14. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 27 2010, 2:20 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 27 2010, 2:20 PM EST
"Well its not like she saw any of that."
She saw him gloating over it with those other .... I shall just not say: The Seymour's and Bryan. Do you find this valuable?    
Nofretete
Nofretete
15. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 27 2010, 2:34 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 27 2010, 2:34 PM EST
"She saw him gloating over it with those other .... I shall just not say: The Seymour's and Bryan."
True, but she was pissed long before that. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
16. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 27 2010, 3:05 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 27 2010, 3:06 PM EST
"True, but she was pissed long before that."
It has already been explained why she was pulling away from him before that. Now to add insult to injury he is gloating that another man is going to die. Catherine clearly has her opinons and views on death and murder, she cant tell the king what to do but I guess she was hoping her husband wasnt a cold blooded killer like his best friend and now she sees that he is and is horrorfied and disgusted. I would be as well.
It reminds me of how Anne felt after Henry beat the crap out of that messanger for no reason, you are seeing a new side to a person you once loved, adored, and admired and you dont like what you see. 1  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
Verlah
Verlah
17. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 28 2010, 8:10 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 28 2010, 8:14 AM EST
"What kind of question is that? Her husband is a murderer and she is supposed to be happy about it? I dont think so, she is one of the last moral characters on the show. Plus he is disgusting her more and more with his behavior like with Cromwell, a character who did nothing to him and whom he gladly watched die."
Please don't forget that there are almost NO characters on the show who act exclusively morally. If you just like characters who act only in moral ways, then "The Tudors" might not be the right show for you, I dare say. When we start talking about morals, we can forget the whole show. Jane Seymour loved Henry, and she never had been upset with him, although Henry is the biggest murderer of all. So you should question HER morals as well.
Especially in those days, as a wife one had to distinguish between the behaviour of one's husband towards one and his behaviour towards those who did not belong to the family. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Nofretete
Nofretete
18. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 28 2010, 8:50 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 28 2010, 8:50 AM EST
"It has already been explained why she was pulling away from him before that. Now to add insult to injury he is gloating that another man is going to die. Catherine clearly has her opinons and views on death and murder, she cant tell the king what to do but I guess she was hoping her husband wasnt a cold blooded killer like his best friend and now she sees that he is and is horrorfied and disgusted. I would be as well.
It reminds me of how Anne felt after Henry beat the crap out of that messanger for no reason, you are seeing a new side to a person you once loved, adored, and admired and you dont like what you see."
Well frankly, Anne'sCurls, I know you simply hate both Henry and Brandon, but a cold blooded killer is someone, who does not care killing and Brandon clearly was not at all happy about having to kill the Pilgrims. You can call his actions morally wrong, but he didn't do it while smiling like a maniac, unlike Cromwell, who took joy in it. For me Catherine only started to have reason for a marriage crisis the moment she walked in on her husband and the Seymours talking about Cromwell's execution. Well, and fromhis reaction he clearly hadn't wanted her to see that. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
HeroineAddict
HeroineAddict
19. RE: What has he done wrong?
Jan 28 2010, 10:23 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 28 2010, 10:26 AM EST
"Well frankly, Anne'sCurls, I know you simply hate both Henry and Brandon, but a cold blooded killer is someone, who does not care killing and Brandon clearly was not at all happy about having to kill the Pilgrims. You can call his actions morally wrong, but he didn't do it while smiling like a maniac, unlike Cromwell, who took joy in it. For me Catherine only started to have reason for a marriage crisis the moment she walked in on her husband and the Seymours talking about Cromwell's execution. Well, and fromhis reaction he clearly hadn't wanted her to see that. "
Hmmm, I always bridle a bit at the idea that Cromwell 'took joy' in the deaths of the rebels. Sure, he was extremely satisified that the rebellion had been put down (and I'm in no way condoning what happened to the rebels...it's a horrible stain on *everyone* who was involved in murdering those poor people), but saying that Cromwell took pleasure in their deaths is, imo, going way too far. As far as he was concerned, a serious threat to the crown had been removed, and that was all...he was never personal or malicious about these things. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
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