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EadaoinTheGael |
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Elliemental |
1. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 2:40 AM EST
But Mary did take great care of Elizabeth when she was very young. I think they did it just to show how close the sisters actually were before thier faith tore them apart.
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English-Rose |
2. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 6:34 AM EST
"In season 3 Mary and Elizabeth share a bed and have a sisterly chat. As if this would have ever happened...."Yes, it bothers me! When I saw it, I was like 'What!?!?!' I really wish the show didn't have all these historical inaccuracies, it gives people who don't know the facts the wrong ideas and leads them away from the truth. 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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henry's7thwife |
3. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 7:31 AM EST
"Yes, it bothers me! When I saw it, I was like 'What!?!?!' I really wish the show didn't have all these historical inaccuracies, it gives people who don't know the facts the wrong ideas and leads them away from the truth."A lot of things bother me about the show. Though I enjoy watching it, it is when people go all defensive on "Rewritten Showtime History" that I get bugged. I mean, at least do not take it on face value. The least they could have done was to mention that they have taken liberties with facts!! 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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henry's7thwife |
4. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 7:32 AM EST
"But Mary did take great care of Elizabeth when she was very young. I think they did it just to show how close the sisters actually were before thier faith tore them apart."Yes, Mary was very protective to Edward and to Elizabeth when they were babies. The affection unravelled when she was forced to be a member of Princess Elizabeth's household had had to wait on her. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Elliemental |
5. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 11:18 AM EST
| Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 11:19 AM EST
"Yes, Mary was very protective to Edward and to Elizabeth when they were babies. The affection unravelled when she was forced to be a member of Princess Elizabeth's household had had to wait on her."But She was also very caring towards Elizabeth after all that. It was to Mary`s credit, really, that for a long time she did not let her enmity towards Anne Boleyn sour the relationship she had with her half-sister. Mary was a deeply maternal woman, and that seemed to over-come everything else! I`m not denying that it all fell apart later, but that was towards the end of Mary`s reign. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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henry's7thwife |
6. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 11:25 AM EST
"But She was also very caring towards Elizabeth after all that. It was to Mary`s credit, really, that for a long time she did not let her enmity towards Anne Boleyn sour the relationship she had with her half-sister. Mary was a deeply maternal woman, and that seemed to over-come everything else! I`m not denying that it all fell apart later, but that was towards the end of Mary`s reign."I suppose it might have been gradual, as all eroding of relationships are! I also find it very sad that she drifted away from Edward as well. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Elliemental |
7. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 11:34 AM EST
"I suppose it might have been gradual, as all eroding of relationships are! I also find it very sad that she drifted away from Edward as well."I think Edward pushed Mary away, tbh. He tried his dammned hardest to strip her of her faith. I keep meaning to find out when the the word `tolerance` was first used in the English language, because its` so hard to try and get my head around how families could allow themselves to be torn apart by different interpretations of what is essentially, the same faith! 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Lord_Harlequin |
8. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 11:51 AM EST
"I think Edward pushed Mary away, tbh. He tried his dammned hardest to strip her of her faith. I keep meaning to find out when the the word `tolerance` was first used in the English language, because its` so hard to try and get my head around how families could allow themselves to be torn apart by different interpretations of what is essentially, the same faith!"Tolerance, as a word, predates Henry VIII. But I think it was used medically, as in "his body will tolerate this drug". Do you find this valuable? |
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Elliemental |
9. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 11:55 AM EST
"Tolerance, as a word, predates Henry VIII. But I think it was used medically, as in "his body will tolerate this drug"."Thanks, but I wasn`t being overly serious there, you know! Do you find this valuable? |
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henry's7thwife |
10. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 12:06 PM EST
"I think Edward pushed Mary away, tbh. He tried his dammned hardest to strip her of her faith. I keep meaning to find out when the the word `tolerance` was first used in the English language, because its` so hard to try and get my head around how families could allow themselves to be torn apart by different interpretations of what is essentially, the same faith!"True, but one cannot blame Edward completely. He is not one of my favourites, but he was too young and completely under the thumb of his uncles. It was Seymour who advised him to keep Mary under his religious control. I read somewhere, though, that Edward's diary showed too much coldness to everyone, it was like he had frozen his emotions. If that is true, then it is a real tragedy for a child. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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MsSquirrly |
11. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 12:16 PM EST
| Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 12:17 PM EST
"A lot of things bother me about the show. Though I enjoy watching it, it is when people go all defensive on "Rewritten Showtime History" that I get bugged. I mean, at least do not take it on face value. The least they could have done was to mention that they have taken liberties with facts!!"They did. Michael Hirst told the New York times from the beginning :“Showtime commissioned me to write an entertainment, a soap opera, and not history,”....... “And we want people to watch it.”. And there are several quotes in a similar vein where Hirst calls it a soap opera with an historical setting. ....loosely based. Check out this page : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/CREATORS+of+The+Tudors Do you find this valuable? |
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Nofretete |
12. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 12:22 PM EST
"True, but one cannot blame Edward completely. He is not one of my favourites, but he was too young and completely under the thumb of his uncles. It was Seymour who advised him to keep Mary under his religious control. I read somewhere, though, that Edward's diary showed too much coldness to everyone, it was like he had frozen his emotions. If that is true, then it is a real tragedy for a child."Regarding Edward being too cold in his diary: He kept a journal, not a diary. A journal was just supposed to 'record' happenings for the person who kept it. It was not a way to convey feelings, like a modern diary. It would have actually been considered bad style for a journal to write down any feelings. I think the perceived coldness in it, does not reflect Edward's feelings at all. He wrote to Mary "I love you most" in a letter, that sounds like a boy with feelings. :-) Do you find this valuable? |
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Elliemental |
13. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 12:38 PM EST
"True, but one cannot blame Edward completely. He is not one of my favourites, but he was too young and completely under the thumb of his uncles. It was Seymour who advised him to keep Mary under his religious control. I read somewhere, though, that Edward's diary showed too much coldness to everyone, it was like he had frozen his emotions. If that is true, then it is a real tragedy for a child."Oh there is that, afterall Edward was only nine when he became king. But he did once reduce Mary to tears during a christmas family get together (some things never change!) during a disagreement about faith. Do you find this valuable? |
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henry's7thwife |
14. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 12:54 PM EST
"They did.I see! I did not know that. But the amount of people who take the show as gospel was beginning to bug me. :). Thanks for setting me straight. Do you find this valuable? |
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henry's7thwife |
15. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 12:56 PM EST
"Regarding Edward being too cold in his diary: He kept a journal, not a diary. A journal was just supposed to 'record' happenings for the person who kept it. It was not a way to convey feelings, like a modern diary. It would have actually been considered bad style for a journal to write down any feelings.I did not know the difference. Thanks for pointing that out. I wonder if the journal survived. It would be so interesting to read through it. Do you find this valuable? |
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henry's7thwife |
16. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 12:57 PM EST
"Oh there is that, afterall Edward was only nine when he became king. But he did once reduce Mary to tears during a christmas family get together (some things never change!) during a disagreement about faith."Yes, he did indeed. He seemed to have humiliated her to no end (all over religion). Mary was also pretty stubborn in this, unlike Elizabeth who was a real diplomat. Do you find this valuable? |
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Reggie19 |
17. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 1:03 PM EST
| Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 1:04 PM EST
"Yes, it bothers me! When I saw it, I was like 'What!?!?!' I really wish the show didn't have all these historical inaccuracies, it gives people who don't know the facts the wrong ideas and leads them away from the truth."Whether THIS actually happened or not is irrelevant, i think it was something that was utilised to show that Mary didn't hate her sister like so many believe, she was more or less the only solid thing her siblings had through their father's everchanging patterns, their everchanging step mothers. Mary was pretty much the only thing about their lives that didn't change, until she became Queen. It is highly unlikely this little "bed" sequence actually took place, as Elizabeth hadn't been fully restored to her father's favour at that point. Jane Seymour restored Mary, she didn't have the time to do the same for Elizabeth, so its doubtful she was present at court to that extent, although she had been around for her brother's christening. Do you find this valuable? |
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Reggie19 |
18. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 1:09 PM EST
| Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 1:10 PM EST
"I think Edward pushed Mary away, tbh. He tried his dammned hardest to strip her of her faith. I keep meaning to find out when the the word `tolerance` was first used in the English language, because its` so hard to try and get my head around how families could allow themselves to be torn apart by different interpretations of what is essentially, the same faith!"I'll agree with you there Ellie, i don't think it was Mary's fault for the division between her and her brother, though they were both equally stubbourn in their own beliefs, Edward was said to have bullied her mercilessly, while i will put that credence down to his uncles, its doesn't change the fact that he himself acted. But a thought has just occured to me, Mary was quite tolerant of the Protestant religion until she came to the throne, she got along well with her siblings, both Protestants, her stepmothers Anne of Cleves and Catherine Parr, same thing applies. It was only as a result of Edward's reign that Mary appeared to become so narrow-minded when it came to the alternative, even Starkey seems to believe that Mary became a fanatic due her living standards under Edward's reign. While the Anne Boleyn period seems to be the most defining saga of her life, it was the Edwardian period that seemed to create that hostility in her? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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henry's7thwife |
19. RE: Does THIS bother you?
Dec 13 2009, 1:14 PM EST
"I'll agree with you there Ellie, i don't think it was Mary's fault for the division between her and her brother, though they were both equally stubbourn in their own beliefs, Edward was said to have bullied her mercilessly, while i will put that credence down to his uncles, its doesn't change the fact that he himself acted. But a thought has just occured to me, Mary was quite tolerant of the Protestant religion until she came to the throne, she got along well with her siblings, both Protestants, her stepmothers Anne of Cleves and Catherine Parr, same thing applies. It was only as a result of Edward's reign that Mary appeared to become so narrow-minded when it came to the alternative, even Starkey seems to believe that Mary became a fanatic due her living standars under Edward's reign. While the Anne Boleyn saga seems to be the most defining saga of her life, it was the Edwardian period that seemed to create that hostility in her?"That is a very interesting point. She was always a little on the fanatic side in the matter of religion but I suspect that was because of the whole KOA - Henry - Anne triangle. She was in fear of her life under Edward's rule. He was a precocious kid (not surprising) and he hated her standing up to him. So yes, you could be right there. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |