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Discussion: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
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Meriale46 |
RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Apr 12 2009, 2:11 PM EDT
I have to agree with you on 1 point.If I were in Katherine's situation I would have taken my child and left as well.Like Anne she also didn't want her child to carry the name of Bastard.Afterall,Katherine had to much pride for that,nevermind she came from a Royal background and a devoted Cathalic she would have never agreed to a divorce .Wanting Mary to remain in England to inheret the thrown was her 1 true wish.Some may think she was poisoned by Anne Boleyn but that was not the case at all.Katherine was already ill lwhen she left Hampton Court with Uterine Cancer and was dying.People give Anne Boleyn a bad rap for all that happened to Katherine but the reality was Henry and Katherine were already on the out's long before Anne arrived at court.Henry's obsession with Anne was well known,being she was quite beautiful and intellegent.Henry viewed her as the perfect woman and longed for her for many years before winning her heart.Like all men of that time and some of in our own,women were blamed primarily for a man's lust for her reguardless of what her involvement was. Anne rejected Henry not because she longed for the thrown of England and to be Queen,but not loving Henry she had hoped he would eventually lose interest in her and move on.But that was not to be.It took Henry a total of 5 years to win her affection and like many men promised her the moon and stars.Wrote peoms and love letter' .I would submize to say any woman then or now would have been seduced by such a cunning King.We all know that Henry was a lustful King wanting his own way and when Anne refused him it made him want her all the more.Anne's love and devotion for the King before and after their marriage has all but been proved.God makes plan's of his own and sacrifices sometime's must be made for the greater good of mankind.Afterall, Anne's prophecy that her daughter would seceed to the Thrown came to pass."ELIZABETH"
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WOW!WOW!WOW! |
1. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 17 2010, 8:28 AM EST
Haha you have to be kidding me. First off, learn to put a space after punctuation. Your post looks ridiculous. Second, learn to spell. You're try to come off as a fan of this show, and pretend as if you know history but you spell "throne" ----->"Thrown"??? REALLY?!You're post is good for a chuckle though... "Katherine should take her child and leave".... do you know anything about Henry VIII? I seriously think you know nothing. I've watched 3 episodes, and rely mostly on my schooling for knowledge of "The Tudors" but seriously lady... you sound absurd to a new degree.... I'm going to look for some of your other posts to see what you "submize" HAHAHA awesome... 1 out of 9 found this valuable. Do you? |
MsSquirrly |
2. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 17 2010, 8:58 AM EST
| Post edited: Dec 17 2010, 9:28 AM EST
"Haha you have to be kidding me. First off, learn to put a space after punctuation. Your post looks ridiculous. Second, learn to spell. You're try to come off as a fan of this show, and pretend as if you know history but you spell "throne" ----->"Thrown"??? REALLY?!Please read the Guide to the Wiki on the menu at the top left and particularly this page : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/Forum+Discussions We are not here to critique anyone's spelling and punctuation. We have members from all over the world and everyone has a right to an opinion so if you don't agree, that's fine but it is not necessary to attack the person, rather take issue with their idea if you feel the need. 6 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you? |
freya9 |
3. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 17 2010, 10:41 AM EST
I wouldn't call Catherine either. She was just a woman doing what she thought was the best in a difficult situation.
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AJBates |
4. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 17 2010, 12:19 PM EST
I wouldn't call her either as well I would say more that she was just in my opinion too full of pride to think the matter through, and though she tried to perserve her daughter's claim to the throne she failed. Because if she agreed to the annulment when it was first offered all they would have said was we found that the marriage was incestious but since it was entered in good faith the offspring (i.e. Mary) would remain legitatimate, which happened in the cause of Elenor of Aquitene's first marriage.
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England_Monarch |
5. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 17 2010, 12:41 PM EST
I would call her stubborn. As you said, if she'd agreed to it in the first place....I don't believe she was ever fighting for Mary. I think she was fighting for herself. The fact that Mary suffered for what she did, makes me believe this. 5 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you? |
HeverRose |
6. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 17 2010, 1:06 PM EST
In the context of her time and culture Katherine was a martyr. In the context of OUR time and culture she is definitely stubborn.3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
Anne'sCurls |
7. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 17 2010, 3:50 PM EST
Katharine would not be considered a in either time I believe. She was not executed for her faith, she died of natural causes. Plus she was not persecuted for her faith; she was abused and neglected by a cruel husband who didn't want her anymore. I wouldn't consider her particularly stubborn either; yes she could have taken the easy route especially if she understood that England wasn't Spain and had never had a successful woman ruler. But I think 50% of the time she was fighting for Mary and 50% of the time she was fighting for herself and her education since she was a child that she was to live and die the Queen of England. There are a lot of circumstances in Katharine's case that make me think that if one thing was different then she would have reacted differently. For example, if Henry wasn't looking to replace her with Anne but instead a princess of another country. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
QueenElizabethAnne |
8. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 17 2010, 8:14 PM EST
"In psychology, a person who has a martyr complex, sometimes associated with the term victim complex, desires the feeling of being a martyr for his/her own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it feeds a psychological need.In some cases, this results from the belief that the martyr has been singled out for persecution due to exceptional ability or integrity.[1] Theologian Paul Johnson considers such beliefs a topic of concern for the mental health of clergy.[2] Other martyr complexes involve willful suffering in the name of love or duty. This has been observed in women, especially in poor families, in codependant or abusive relationships The desire for martyrdom is sometimes considered a form of masochism.[6] Allan Berger, however, described it as one of several patterns of "pain/suffering seeking behavior", including asceticism and penance.[7]" From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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QueenElizabethAnne |
9. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 17 2010, 8:17 PM EST
| Post edited: Dec 25 2010, 2:38 PM EST
"I'm not saying she was a martyr from other people's views. I'm saying she had a martyr complex and saw herself as a martyr. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
I'mTheCheesecakeHere |
10. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Dec 31 2010, 9:02 AM EST
"Please read the Guide to the Wiki on the menu at the top left and particularly this page : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/Forum+DiscussionsI was trying to find a page like that! Thanks! :) I think Catalina died in pain and I am one of those who believe that she died of cancer due to a black growth on her heart (A bit gross to me). (Catalina and and Mary fans please don't be offended by this post I am a Mary fan as well) I think Catalina was only 1%stubborn due to the fact that she was 6 yrs older than King Henry VIII (Just so you know I usually spell KOA's name Catalina and sorry for all the brackets). Do you find this valuable? |
leahmcc311 |
11. RE: RE:KOA Martyr or Stobborn.
Jan 17 2011, 4:19 PM EST
I think we all have to remember that KOA's mother and father were Ferdinand and Isabella who were on the Reconquest against the moors her entire childhood, and she was with them. Ferdinand and Isabella ruled in common, and KOA was betrothed to Henry's older brother since she was 4 years old. She denied having ever consummated that marriage, which most people didn't, and still don't believe, but Henry wanted to marry her anyway. He was deeply in love with her, and was the younger more doted upon son, so he got what he wanted. All of this shaped KOA's personality. She believed deeply in her religious ideology, her destiny for she and her heirs to be Kings and Queens of England and Spain, and in woman being able to rule every bit as well as men.
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