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Dagney
Dagney
The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 8:32 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 8:32 AM EDT
I'm watching again second season of 'The Tudors' and I'm really wondering about one thing.When last time Anne and Henry met? In which circumstances was it? Was it good and normal, or rather not pleasant event? Did Henry really believed on Anne's fault when she was arrested?Or he knew that she is innocent? Did he wanted to save her somehow? Do you find this valuable?    
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
1. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 8:52 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 8:52 AM EDT
"I'm watching again second season of 'The Tudors' and I'm really wondering about one thing.When last time Anne and Henry met? In which circumstances was it? Was it good and normal, or rather not pleasant event? Did Henry really believed on Anne's fault when she was arrested?Or he knew that she is innocent? Did he wanted to save her somehow?"
Monday, May 1, 1536, the King and Queen were at a tournament at Greenwich preparing to watch a joust between George Boleyn and Sir Henry Norris. A message (the contents of which were not known) was brought to Henry VIII and he left suddenly with Sir Henry Norris. He said nothing to Anne. It was the last time they saw each other.
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Reggie19
2. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 9:04 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 9:04 AM EDT
"Monday, May 1, 1536, the King and Queen were at a tournament at Greenwich preparing to watch a joust between George Boleyn and Sir Henry Norris. A message (the contents of which were not known) was brought to Henry VIII and he left suddenly with Sir Henry Norris. He said nothing to Anne. It was the last time they saw each other."
What about the moment when Anne was pleading with Henry for a second chance while carrying Elizabeth in her arms. I know of the moment you're speaking of angelosdaughter, just want to know when the other moment took place, because it definitely happened!
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QueenAB
QueenAB
3. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 9:07 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 9:07 AM EDT
"I'm watching again second season of 'The Tudors' and I'm really wondering about one thing.When last time Anne and Henry met? In which circumstances was it? Was it good and normal, or rather not pleasant event? Did Henry really believed on Anne's fault when she was arrested?Or he knew that she is innocent? Did he wanted to save her somehow?"
Great Question!!! From what I’ve read the last time they saw each other was May Day Celebrations 1536. I’m not sure of how the acted toward one another. If I had to guess they probably tried to cover everything up and act like there were no problems. Basically Henry wanted Anne gone so that he could marry Jane Seymour and perduce a male heir. I feel that he knew she was innocent but went along with Cromwell’s plan to rid himself of her.
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QueenAB
QueenAB
4. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 9:09 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 9:09 AM EDT
"Great Question!!! From what I’ve read the last time they saw each other was May Day Celebrations 1536. I’m not sure of how the acted toward one another. If I had to guess they probably tried to cover everything up and act like there were no problems. Basically Henry wanted Anne gone so that he could marry Jane Seymour and perduce a male heir. I feel that he knew she was innocent but went along with Cromwell’s plan to rid himself of her. "
lol- I'm too slow
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MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
5. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 9:23 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 9:24 AM EDT
"What about the moment when Anne was pleading with Henry for a second chance while carrying Elizabeth in her arms. I know of the moment you're speaking of angelosdaughter, just want to know when the other moment took place, because it definitely happened!"
This is from our page on the wiki called "Strange but true"....this scene was recounted to Elizabeth later....the date of the event is not given.

Quote: "In 1559, Alexander Ales, a Scottish Lutheran, sent an account of this to Queen Elizabeth I. He said he had been at court seeking the payment of a gift the King had promised him from Thomas Cromwell.

"Never shall I forget the sorrow which I felt when I saw the most serene queen, your most religious mother, carrying you, still a little baby, in her arms and entreating the most serene king your father, in Greenwich Palace, from the open window of which he was looking into the courtyard, when she brought you to him. I did not perfectly understand what had been going on, but the faces and gestures of the speakers plainly showed that the king was angry, although he could conceal his anger wonderfully well. Yet from the protracted conference of the council (for whom the crowd was waiting until it was quite dark, expecting that they would return to London), it was most obvious to everyone that some deep and difficult question was being discussed."
[Eric Ives' Life and Death of Anne Boleyn]
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Holly2
Holly2
6. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 10:50 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 10:50 AM EDT
"This is from our page on the wiki called "Strange but true"....this scene was recounted to Elizabeth later....the date of the event is not given.

Quote: "In 1559, Alexander Ales, a Scottish Lutheran, sent an account of this to Queen Elizabeth I. He said he had been at court seeking the payment of a gift the King had promised him from Thomas Cromwell.

"Never shall I forget the sorrow which I felt when I saw the most serene queen, your most religious mother, carrying you, still a little baby, in her arms and entreating the most serene king your father, in Greenwich Palace, from the open window of which he was looking into the courtyard, when she brought you to him. I did not perfectly understand what had been going on, but the faces and gestures of the speakers plainly showed that the king was angry, although he could conceal his anger wonderfully well. Yet from the protracted conference of the council (for whom the crowd was waiting until it was quite dark, expecting that they would return to London), it was most obvious to everyone that some deep and difficult question was being discussed."
[Eric Ives' Life and Death of Anne Boleyn]"
"Serene" isn't a word that comes to mind when I think of Anne or Henry!
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Reggie19
7. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 10:54 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 10:54 AM EDT
""Serene" isn't a word that comes to mind when I think of Anne or Henry!"
This man was talking to Elizabeth about her parents, what was he supposed to call her mother, volatile (that may have been the truth, but who wants to pee off a woman like Elizabeth by speaking ill of her mother!)?
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Holly2
Holly2
8. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 10:57 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 10:57 AM EDT
"This man was talking to Elizabeth about her parents, what was he supposed to call her mother, volatile (that may have been the truth, but who wants to pee off a woman like Elizabeth by speaking ill of her mother!)?"
What's wrong with "the queen" and "the king"?
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Reggie19
9. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 11:18 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 11:18 AM EDT
"What's wrong with "the queen" and "the king"?"
I don't know, they liked using descriptive words!
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HeroineAddict
HeroineAddict
10. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 11:24 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 11:24 AM EDT
"I don't know, they liked using descriptive words!"
Besides, 'serene' is synonymous in this context with 'grace' and 'majesty', so is a fairly typical way of referring to a monarch. It's just a sign of utmost respect and reverence.
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
11. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 9 2009, 12:00 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 9 2009, 12:09 PM EDT
"What about the moment when Anne was pleading with Henry for a second chance while carrying Elizabeth in her arms. I know of the moment you're speaking of angelosdaughter, just want to know when the other moment took place, because it definitely happened!"
Yes, it did, at least according to the Scotch Lutheran clergyman Alexander Ales, supposedly present that day at Greenwich to collect a sum from Henry who had promised it to him. Ales wrote of it to Elizabeth. It happened either on April 29th or 30th 1536. Anne according to Ales had become aware that the council was meeting that evening on a matter of urgency. Anne somehow was certain that the meeting was concerning her and with the little Elizabeth in her arms, went to find Henry. Ales witnessed the confrontation from a distance but did not hear what was said. The king seemed to be angry. Anne, child in arms, seemed to be pleading.
It would be interesting to know if Elizabeth was actually at court that day (royal children usually had separate households); Anne would not have had time to send for her, since her discovery of the Council's meeting and the crowd waiting outside for news was only made while walking her dogs that day.
Alexander Ales composed this account for Elizabeth in 1559. He hoped for Elizabeth's patronage, and included an address for any contributions the Queen might want to send. He cast himself as the person in whose charge, Anne about to die, had placed her child, Elizabeth, and was one of the apologists who cast Anne as a heroine of the Reformist cause. Personally I think his account is highly suspect.
It does describe a scene of pathos and drama (worhty of the ShowTime series). It was known that Elizabeth enjoyed hearing her mother spoken of. Even Eric Ives seems a a bit suspicious of Ales' motives. I am suspicious of his credibility.
Queen Anne was arrested on May 2nd, the day after the tournament at which Henry had left her, and executed on May 19th.
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Dagney
Dagney
12. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 10 2009, 12:42 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 10 2009, 12:42 AM EDT
Thanks to everyone who has responsed me!

I was a little bit confused about the last meeting of Anne and Henry.In 'The Tudors' it was when she was begging Henry for one more chance with little Elisbeth on hands.I found it very touching scene.In one movie (I think Anne Boleyn was played by Charlotte Rampling) there is showed situation on the tournament when Henry founds out about Anne's guilt and he just go out.In 'Anne Of Thousand Days' the last meeting of Anne and Henry takes place when Anne is in prison and Henry came to her.But this situation never happened and is only to add more drama.

I was reading once that Cromwell was even scared to show the King things of which Anne was accused - he was scared because they were so ridiculous and impossible and he didn't know how Henry will react on them.But obviously Henry didn't care much, he just wanted to get rid off Anne.

I'm only wondering how Henry could do such a horrible thing to womam which he loved so much for so many years! It wasn't just a short love story, but a long battle with everyone to accept the relationship.And how he could take mother from Elisabeth .... he obviously didn't care also for her, if he did he would left Anne alive.

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BoleynGirl
BoleynGirl
13. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 10 2009, 12:52 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 10 2009, 12:53 AM EDT
Henry definetely knew that Anne was innocent....The scene that Anne beggs Henry for one more chance brokes my heart..How cruel a man!!!That really happened a few days before Anne was arrested... 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Dagney
Dagney
14. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 10 2009, 12:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 10 2009, 12:58 AM EDT
"Henry definetely knew that Anne was innocent....The scene that Anne beggs Henry for one more chance brokes my heart..How cruel a man!!!That really happened a few days before Anne was arrested..."
Yes, that's true.I think that Henry was a really cruel man, some of his actions it's hard to understand.But there's always danger in being close to the crown, especially is the crown was on Henry's head.
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Reggie19
15. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 10 2009, 9:41 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 10 2009, 9:41 AM EDT
"Yes, that's true.I think that Henry was a really cruel man, some of his actions it's hard to understand.But there's always danger in being close to the crown, especially is the crown was on Henry's head."
Henry definitely knew Anne was innocent? That's something i haven't heard, i think Cromwell more played on the fact that the King was growing tired of Anne, who was also losing her patience with Cromwell, and used this to his advantage, inventing evidence and torturing Smeaton to the point where anyone would have confessed. I was always under the impression that Henry thought the evidence against her was true, while Cromwell played along with Henry's evergrowing dislike of the wife he once loved, in an effort to show his absolute loyalty. I'm not trying to make Cromwell a villain, he was only doing what was in the best interest of his King, and i'm certainly not trying to paint Henry as a blissfully ignorant victim in all this. I would really like to believe that if Henry knew Anne was innocent, he would not have gone to such lengths to take Elizabeth's mother away from her. But this is just an opinion, a sentimental one!
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angelosdaughter
angelosdaughter
16. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 10 2009, 10:38 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 10 2009, 10:38 AM EDT
"Thanks to everyone who has responsed me!

I was a little bit confused about the last meeting of Anne and Henry.In 'The Tudors' it was when she was begging Henry for one more chance with little Elisbeth on hands.I found it very touching scene.In one movie (I think Anne Boleyn was played by Charlotte Rampling) there is showed situation on the tournament when Henry founds out about Anne's guilt and he just go out.In 'Anne Of Thousand Days' the last meeting of Anne and Henry takes place when Anne is in prison and Henry came to her.But this situation never happened and is only to add more drama.

I was reading once that Cromwell was even scared to show the King things of which Anne was accused - he was scared because they were so ridiculous and impossible and he didn't know how Henry will react on them.But obviously Henry didn't care much, he just wanted to get rid off Anne.

I'm only wondering how Henry could do such a horrible thing to womam which he loved so much for so many years! It wasn't just a short love story, but a long battle with everyone to accept the relationship.And how he could take mother from Elisabeth .... he obviously didn't care also for her, if he did he would left Anne alive.

"
Cromwll could not really have been afraid; most of the charges were trumped up by him. He knew that Henry was tired of Anne and it was his job to facilitate whatever Henry wanted.
About doing such a thing to a woman he had loved for so many years...well, look what he did to Katharine of Aragon. He exiled, imprisoned and humiliated her.He would probably also have executed her if she had not been the Emperor's niece and the daughter of the Catholic Kings. He separated her from Mary and would not even allow her to go to her mother's deathbed.
In the process of attaining Anne, he found out that his power was unlimited in his own country. They say that 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Henry is a great example.
After Anne, there was almost nothing he would not do to rid himself of a wife he did not want, or as in the case of Katherine Howard, one who had shamed him.
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Honey-Beezz
Honey-Beezz
17. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
Mar 10 2009, 12:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 10 2009, 12:47 PM EDT
"Cromwll could not really have been afraid; most of the charges were trumped up by him. He knew that Henry was tired of Anne and it was his job to facilitate whatever Henry wanted.
About doing such a thing to a woman he had loved for so many years...well, look what he did to Katharine of Aragon. He exiled, imprisoned and humiliated her.He would probably also have executed her if she had not been the Emperor's niece and the daughter of the Catholic Kings. He separated her from Mary and would not even allow her to go to her mother's deathbed.
In the process of attaining Anne, he found out that his power was unlimited in his own country. They say that 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Henry is a great example.
After Anne, there was almost nothing he would not do to rid himself of a wife he did not want, or as in the case of Katherine Howard, one who had shamed him. "
I have just finished watching the Ray Winstone "Henry VIII} dvd; according to that movie,Henry's father made such a big deal about having an heir on his deathbed,that that stayed with Henry. I don't think so, Henry was so full of himself he couldn't bring himself to believe he could only achieve girl babies. He was a different Henry,maybe closer in looks to the real thing,but,I think he would look more natural in a pub with a brew in his hand.But,the scene with Anne and toddler Elizabeth stayed with me,too. Even if it wasn't true,it was good screen.
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JoshylovesAnneB
JoshylovesAnneB
18. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
May 22 2009, 12:06 AM EDT | Post edited: May 22 2009, 12:06 AM EDT
I agree with you entirely Do you find this valuable?    
luvprue2
luvprue2
19. RE: The last meeting of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII
May 22 2009, 1:44 AM EDT | Post edited: May 22 2009, 1:44 AM EDT
"I'm watching again second season of 'The Tudors' and I'm really wondering about one thing.When last time Anne and Henry met? In which circumstances was it? Was it good and normal, or rather not pleasant event? Did Henry really believed on Anne's fault when she was arrested?Or he knew that she is innocent? Did he wanted to save her somehow?"
The last Anne and Henry spoke to one another, it was at the May day Joust. according to what I have read, everything appeared normal, and the king and queen seem in good spirit. Then according to some, Anne drop her handkerchief,and Henry Norris pick it up ,wipe the sweat from himself,and return to Anne. After that incident, the king immediately left the May joust, leaving the queen behind, bewildered, and he didn't bid her a goodbye. However, The king request the present of Henry Norris . It was highly believe that the incident between Anne and Henry Norris at the May joust ,was all the king needed to be convinced of Anne's guilt .
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