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Maggie-AnneB. |
40. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 11 2009, 3:55 PM EDT
"I agree. Its hard to have a baby at 38 NOW if you don't have medical supervision, and any pregnancy occurring after 35 is considered "high risk" - doctors/midwives had NO modern means or science on their side to help themselves, much less a Queen give birth at that age. A good percentage of women age 18-25 died in childbirth then. For her, it was next to impossible."Yep. Thank Goodness for antibiotics!!! Do you find this valuable? |
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Ebusitanus |
41. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 11 2009, 5:33 PM EDT
The Spanish Ambassador at London and even the Habsburgs at Brussels wanted Mary to leave when it looked very bleak with Edward and his croonies. They did send the ship to take her away and she had moved to one of her manons near the coast. But she did not get scared, she just weighted the pro and contras of leaving and saving her skin at the cost of her rightful Crown. None of her family had much hopes she last. They did not count that she would be clamored up by the small nobility and the common folks.
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Anne'sCurls |
42. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 11 2009, 5:50 PM EDT
If Mary had left, Im sure Edward would have let Elizabeth become queen. THe only reason he disinherited her and chose Jane was because he couldnt disinherit Mary w/o doing the same thing to Elizabeth. But Im pretty sure that if Elizabeth had become queen after Edward Mary would have returned to England to take it away for her and really what argument would Elizabeth have against it.
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luvprue2 |
43. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 13 2009, 5:26 AM EDT
"The Spanish Ambassador at London and even the Habsburgs at Brussels wanted Mary to leave when it looked very bleak with Edward and his croonies. They did send the ship to take her away and she had moved to one of her manons near the coast. But she did not get scared, she just weighted the pro and contras of leaving and saving her skin at the cost of her rightful Crown. None of her family had much hopes she last. They did not count that she would be clamored up by the small nobility and the common folks."Yes, he did. But if Mary had left, what would have became of her friends? They would have suffer because of it. Plus , some part of Mary truly love her father ,and she still believe that he still loved her, which he did. Mary was well aware that she had a lot of supporters, and if she left she knew they would have been punish. There is a new book about Mary 1 set to be release , entitle "The First Queen of England: The Myth of "Bloody Mary" by Linda Porter. Do you find this valuable? |
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Ebusitanus |
44. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 13 2009, 6:43 AM EDT
Linda Porter´s excellent book has been available for a while and was a very gratifying and refreshing read. Most of what I post about Mary I have learned there.As with so many other things, her duty towards her people, her lineage and rights, was stronger than her own desire to enjoy a normalitzed life. She could have fled and I´m sure the Protestant faction would have been overjoyed if she had. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anne'sCurls |
45. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 13 2009, 7:41 PM EDT
I want Mary to be happy, her life was one tragedy after the next and it didnt get better after she became queen it got worst. I could understand if it all resulted in something positive for her and for England but it didnt. Yeah hindsight is good and all and of course Mary never knew it would all be for nothing, but I cant help but wish she had left and been happy. Then again she might have always wondered what if. Do you find this valuable? |
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Maggie-AnneB. |
46. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 14 2009, 3:43 PM EDT
"I want Mary to be happy, her life was one tragedy after the next and it didnt get better after she became queen it got worst. I could understand if it all resulted in something positive for her and for England but it didnt.I think that if she had left England, she would have died a happy woman. I think though, when Edward died, she would have wanted to come back and reclaim the throne, she wouldn't have succeeded. Elizabeth then would have stepped up. Do you find this valuable? |
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Honey-Beezz |
47. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 14 2009, 6:50 PM EDT
"In your opinion which of Henry's kid was the most damaged? You've got Edward the budding serial killer aka tortures animals. Mary and her burning of heretics, and Elizabeth "daddy killed my mommy and my step mommy and tried to kill my other step mommy....so Im never letting any man touch me""I have a question? I have read a bio on Edward,but,can't find anything about him torturing animals. I know Thomas Seymour shot Edward's dog when entering E's room unannounced,but that was all that was mentioned. And did you feel Edward would go the way of his father? Do you find this valuable? |
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Maggie-AnneB. |
48. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 14 2009, 9:18 PM EDT
"I have a question? I have read a bio on Edward,but,can't find anything about him torturing animals. I know Thomas Seymour shot Edward's dog when entering E's room unannounced,but that was all that was mentioned. And did you feel Edward would go the way of his father?"I know I had read somewhere that he did hurt animals... I think it was "The Children of Henry VIII"- Alison Weir. I think it was said in the book, I'm not positive but I think so. Edward was so like his father. He acted haughty, and proud. Which he should act, since he was king. But he did feel any remorse for his two uncle's beheadings. Like Henry when Buckingham or Anne was beheaded. Edward even stood the same way as Henry had. Legs spread about and hands on hips. Do you find this valuable? |
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RoyalStuart |
49. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 14 2009, 10:14 PM EDT
"He didn't have her married off at a young age, although he talked and talked about it. She married Phillip of Spain, when she was I think 38, Phil was about 25/26. Her child-bearing days were basically over, and if she were to get pregnant (which she didn't, she had 2 phantom pregnancies) she could die, along with the baby. "Your child-bearing years aren't over at 38. Do you find this valuable? |
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Hever |
50. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 14 2009, 10:45 PM EDT
"Your child-bearing years aren't over at 38. "In those days that would have been a dangerous age to be having children. Do you find this valuable? |
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Maggie-AnneB. |
51. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 14 2009, 10:58 PM EDT
"Your child-bearing years aren't over at 38. "Physical it could happen, then, but it was dangerous to have a child at that late of stage. And to have your first child so late in life, is a risk too. Random person, Marilyn Monroe (around her early 30's) tried to get pregnant and have a child, but she couldn't because of many things but also because she had never given birth to a child before. Do you find this valuable? |
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Anne'sCurls |
52. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 15 2009, 2:22 AM EDT
"I think that if she had left England, she would have died a happy woman. I think though, when Edward died, she would have wanted to come back and reclaim the throne, she wouldn't have succeeded. Elizabeth then would have stepped up. "That's exactly how I feel. Do you find this valuable? |
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theothertudorgirl |
53. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 15 2009, 5:30 AM EDT
I would really have to say that all of them are damaged but I think Edward was the most because he was so overprotected by his father and he had a lot of pressure on him from a young age, half of it he probably didn't understand.
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hohumpigsbum |
54. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 15 2009, 7:44 AM EDT
"In your opinion which of Henry's kid was the most damaged? You've got Edward the budding serial killer aka tortures animals. Mary and her burning of heretics, and Elizabeth "daddy killed my mommy and my step mommy and tried to kill my other step mommy....so Im never letting any man touch me""I think Mary, the amount Henry put her through and the amount her let Anne Boleyn put her through is shocking. And with Elizabeth it was tragic that she never knew her mother but the differance with Mary was she knew her mother well they had a very special bond and even when he mother was dying she wasnt allowed to see her (Im not saying thats worse than Elizabeth never knwoing her mother, but it was have been a very diffrent kind of pain because Mary knew she was cpaable of seeing her mother, she was alive, it wasnt impossible) Do you find this valuable? |
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hohumpigsbum |
55. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 15 2009, 7:47 AM EDT
"I think Mary was the most damaged, although i think all three developed emotional problems as a result of their father, Elizabeth losing her mother, stepmother no.1 and no.3 (Jane died and Katherine Howard was beheaded, i'm not counting KOA, Katherine Parr and Anne of Cleves because Lizzy never met KOA, she spent her teenage years with Parr, and Anne of Cleves didn't die until Lizzy was a lot older, and wasn't her stepmother then) and her father and her stepfather (Thomas Seymour) were pigs. Edward never had his mother in his life, and i'm certain was aware that he'd been the death of her, and the torturing of animals really speaks a lot for the mental state of that child's mind. Mary, however, was seperated, forcefully, from her mother, prevented from seeing, speaking or even writing to her, she basically saw her as a child, and the next time she heard from her, the mother she loved was dead, and her father and stepmother celebrated that fact. She was bastardized, and lowered so she was no longer a princess in waiting to be queen, but a lady to serve in the household of a new princess, the daughter of the woman whom had degraded her so. I believe Mary was only ever really loved by one person, and that was her mother, Henry rejected her, Anne despised her, Phillip, her husband, didn't even love her, and absconded off the Spain on several occasions after their marriage, leaving her all alone, she wasn't even acknowledged as his wife on his tombstone, what a horrible man!"I agree ins aying she was only really loved by her mother though saying that Salisbury did care a lot for her, and her cousin Charles did do a lot to help her, she also had a friend in Chapys, and she did have the support of the people for a long time...though none of them were really "love" more affection and friendship, and care Do you find this valuable? |
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CarolineZ |
56. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Mar 18 2009, 4:18 PM EDT
Yes, I agree! I had my first child at 41 and my 2nd at 44. But, I know I'm lucky on that and not every woman can have a child in her forties.
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audietudor |
57. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Apr 9 2009, 11:20 AM EDT
"I think Mary was the most damaged, although i think all three developed emotional problems as a result of their father, Elizabeth losing her mother, stepmother no.1 and no.3 (Jane died and Katherine Howard was beheaded, i'm not counting KOA, Katherine Parr and Anne of Cleves because Lizzy never met KOA, she spent her teenage years with Parr, and Anne of Cleves didn't die until Lizzy was a lot older, and wasn't her stepmother then) and her father and her stepfather (Thomas Seymour) were pigs. Edward never had his mother in his life, and i'm certain was aware that he'd been the death of her, and the torturing of animals really speaks a lot for the mental state of that child's mind. Mary, however, was seperated, forcefully, from her mother, prevented from seeing, speaking or even writing to her, she basically saw her as a child, and the next time she heard from her, the mother she loved was dead, and her father and stepmother celebrated that fact. She was bastardized, and lowered so she was no longer a princess in waiting to be queen, but a lady to serve in the household of a new princess, the daughter of the woman whom had degraded her so. I believe Mary was only ever really loved by one person, and that was her mother, Henry rejected her, Anne despised her, Phillip, her husband, didn't even love her, and absconded off the Spain on several occasions after their marriage, leaving her all alone, she wasn't even acknowledged as his wife on his tombstone, what a horrible man!"Mary was the most damaged-by far. She endured all that she endured under tyranny into middle age. Both Edward and Elizabeth were babes when they lost their mothers. Children that young are far more resilient too imo. It just doesn't compare to what Mary was forced to endure nearly to the end of her days. Elizabeth came to the throne in the bloom of youth-unlike Mary. And she had loving men like Robert Dudely in her life for comfort-Mary-not even close. Do you find this valuable? |
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audietudor |
58. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Apr 9 2009, 11:28 AM EDT
"I think they were all equally damanged, and it's just the extent and means they acted it out that we see. Some say Mary's burning of heretics was an outgrowth of her trying to "please men" (Catholic advisors) and she really hated killing. They all enjoyed their "blood sports" which I personally find abhorrent. Everyone says it's the sign of those times and culture, that the killing(s) were all in a sort of context...in other words, you can kill politically (and maybe not watch) but you're not supposed to enjoy seeing the victim (person or animal) suffer the torture, When Elizabeth was angry, she ordered drawing and quartering without blinking. As for her sexual nature, she certainly loved her romps and found ways of satisfying herself without endangering pregnancy. What's warped is how she believed that a younger man like Essex could find her so alluring, the extent to which she rewarded her lovers with titles, etc. with a complete disregard for their qualifications.I agree with what you say about Elizabeth and men. I am sure she slaked her lust in some way or another with the men in her life-like Robin Dudely but that is my opinion. Mary was never remotely close to such male comforts. Imo there is no proof Elizabeth was not a virgin-but there is no proof otherwise. Do you find this valuable? |
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audietudor |
59. RE: Henry's Most Damaged Kid
Apr 9 2009, 12:51 PM EDT
"It's just that nobody knows why she didn't get pregnant, there could be lots of reasons. All i'm saying is it's an strange statement, who knows why things happened. "It would have been treason for Mary to 'get pregnant' outside of a marriage sanctioned by her father the King. I have read that at the end of his life he voiced regret for not seeing to his daughter's marriage. It IS because of Henry that Mary never got pregnant in what would have been her most fertile years-he prevented it by not allowing Mary to marry. Do you find this valuable? |