Location: EXECUTIONS under all the Tudors

Discussion: The most gruesome executionsReported This is a featured thread

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howardfan
howardfan
The most gruesome executions
Sep 18 2008, 3:25 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 18 2008, 3:25 PM EDT
Okay so I do hope that the tudors show has the right date for the execution of thomas cromwell and lady salisbury
As that would mean they both die in season four

These two executions were two of the most horrid i have come to read about under Henry VII's reign

When thomas cromwell died on 28th july 1540, An ametuer swordsman was hired to execute the "Treasonus traitor" and alas it took the inept man several strokes before he was able to sever his head properly as he kept missing his aim. The crowd who were present (he was not privy to a more formal exeuction like anne boleyn) cheered when atlast the painful ordeal was over and cromwells head fell onto the hay.

Sadder still was the execution of Reginald poles mother in the spring of 1541. the woman declared at the scaffold that she was "not a traitor" and the axeman reportedly "hacked" the poor womans head and shoulders to peices before the head was seperated from her neck and fell...It was a butchery of a murder "that of a chickens death"

Then later on there was the exeuction in 1587 of Mary queen of scots who was favoured by spain and the catholic countries to take the throne in england.
Elizabeths advisor, Francis, soon saw to this and mary was accused of sending letters through papists in england, whether it true or not i am not sure
anyway, Mary took three blows to the neck before her head was severed.
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MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
1. RE: The most gruesome executions
Sep 18 2008, 3:59 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 18 2008, 3:59 PM EDT
yes all three were pretty gruesome. Poor Lady Salisbury was 67 years old. I mean what threat could she really pose? It seems like it was a way for Henry to get at Reginald Pole. It will be interesting to see if this is covered in Season 3 as we know an actor has been cast for Pole. There is a wiki profile for Lady Salisbury if anyone is interested in her story : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/Lady+Salisbury 3  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    
howardfan
howardfan
2. RE: The most gruesome executions
Sep 18 2008, 5:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 18 2008, 5:29 PM EDT
"yes all three were pretty gruesome. Poor Lady Salisbury was 67 years old. I mean what threat could she really pose? It seems like it was a way for Henry to get at Reginald Pole. It will be interesting to see if this is covered in Season 3 as we know an actor has been cast for Pole. There is a wiki profile for Lady Salisbury if anyone is interested in her story : http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/Lady+Salisbury"
thanks for the link but i do hope they keep the timeline right as they have so far (anne b's execution was correct)
may 18th 1536 and the delaying of the french swordsman was accurate too.

Poor old woman salisbury was bumped off to ease henrys woes and he thought it best to have her out the way as spring began, i read a book which described it as his "spring cleaning"
truly awful

And then poor kitty was executed two days before st valentines day, horrid or what?
and she was taken to the tower on boat past the two men who were executed, their heads pailed on spikes for her to witness as an omen of her impending death
i beleive the king let this happen because he was so hurt, he honestly beleived she was a wanton hussy, who was sleeping with them both, and just hearing that kitty was not a virgin to begin with hurt him deeply, and in the book im reading by joanna denny, they say that it appeared by not telling the truth of your chastity before wedding the king, this was enough to warrant an arrest.

After his filthy lifestyle and all those who hated him for his sexual deeds, you would think henry would think himself a hypocrite but nay he did not

oh well atleast others secretly harboured hatred toward him, and some brave people even attempted to over throw him
Go reginald pole ^_^ sadly it did not come to pass nor did Howard duke of Norfolks plan to over throw little edward and restore the catholic faith
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MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
3. RE: The most gruesome executions
Sep 18 2008, 5:36 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 18 2008, 5:36 PM EDT
"And then poor kitty was executed two days before st valentines day, horrid or what?
and she was taken to the tower on boat past the two men who were executed, their heads pailed on spikes for her to witness as an omen of her impending death
i beleive the king let this happen because he was so hurt, he honestly beleived she was a wanton hussy, who was sleeping with them both, and just hearing that kitty was not a virgin to begin with hurt him deeply, and in the book im reading by joanna denny, they say that it appeared by not telling the truth of your chastity before wedding the king, this was enough to warrant an arrest."
Oh My, that is a new one on me. How awful for that poor young girl.

It seems odd to us today. I mean what she did before she married him really means nothing in todays world but back then of course virginity was pretty precious. But being a man's world...it was female virginity only LOL.
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howardfan
howardfan
4. RE: The most gruesome executions
Sep 18 2008, 9:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 18 2008, 9:07 PM EDT
"Oh My, that is a new one on me. How awful for that poor young girl.

It seems odd to us today. I mean what she did before she married him really means nothing in todays world but back then of course virginity was pretty precious. But being a man's world...it was female virginity only LOL."
yup so so true huh?
it would appear in the court of henry's mind, that only jane seymour and Anne of cleves were virgins as he was convinced KOA was not and she had slept with his brother arthur and that anne of course was a great whore and he knew parr had two previous marriages
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robbie4949
5. RE: The most gruesome executions
Aug 17 2009, 5:07 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 17 2009, 5:07 AM EDT
"yup so so true huh?
it would appear in the court of henry's mind, that only jane seymour and Anne of cleves were virgins as he was convinced KOA was not and she had slept with his brother arthur and that anne of course was a great whore and he knew parr had two previous marriages"
Remember in Tudor times women were considered of less value than men. In fact this notion continued for quite a while. In the western world women were only given the right to vote in the early twentieth century. In most eastern countries women are still considered of less worth than a man.

What word in English refers to a man of loose morals ?? There are many though for women, tart, whore & slut etc. A man could do as he pleases but a woman would be scorned for loose conduct.

I stood on tower green in 1992 during a trip to England pondering that so much blood had drenched that small plot of earth, legally. In fact the words that came to mind were Gilbert & Sullivan's opera "Yeoman of the Guard". ' and men may bleed and men may burn'. Should have been women as well. Before & during the 1500's women could be burnt at the stake for High and petty Treason.
High treason was being unfaithful to the king or plotting against the crown. Petty treason was being unfaithful to one's husband. I think being of noble birth allowed the lesser punishment of beheading at the time of the Tudors.
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EEGRIMMER
EEGRIMMER
6. RE: The most gruesome executions
Jun 14 2010, 9:32 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 14 2010, 9:32 AM EDT
The saddest part i think in alot of it is that Anne most likely never committed any of the crimes she was killed for and previous to the King it is unlikely that she had ever had sexual relations (anything more than a quick kiss) with anyone other than Lord Henry Percy whom she was deeply in love with 5  out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?    
lindaroot
lindaroot
7. RE: The most gruesome executions
Jul 7 2010, 11:59 AM EDT | Post edited: Jul 7 2010, 11:59 AM EDT
The execution of Mary Queen of Scots stands out for several reasons. First, she was a regnant queen, and never a subject of ElizabethR, and her only crimes were having a claim to the English throne to which she felt entitled, and was naive enough to flee to England when she could have fled to France where at least she had property, family, and standing. As to the execution itself, it was performed under a shroud in a remote palace, with few attendants, indoors to avoid uninvited spectators, and under grim circumstances. The headsman had to strike three blows to completely sever her head. The first missed her neck entirely and hit her in the back of the head. She was heard to mumble the phrase, :Sweet Jesu!" Another incredibly tragic execution was that of teenage Lady Jane Grey, who was a lifelong victim of child abuse at the hands of her mother (who was of course Charles Brandon's and Mary Tudor's daughter) and her father, and who had been manipulated by them to consent to claiming the throne after Edward's death, but who had never asked for it and never wanted it. She professed relief as she faced her early death. She occasions a reflection on our current rash of teenage suicides. The poor child wished so much to do the right thing that she went hysterical when she could not find the block on which to place her head. And of course, her parents distanced themselves from her in her final days, and if her father had not been caught hiding out, he would have escaped entirely. And her mother's subsequent career and remarriage is worthy of anything a hollywood script writer might concoct. 4  out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?    

Reggie19
8. RE: The most gruesome executions
Jul 11 2010, 1:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 11 2010, 1:04 PM EDT
"The execution of Mary Queen of Scots stands out for several reasons. First, she was a regnant queen, and never a subject of ElizabethR, and her only crimes were having a claim to the English throne to which she felt entitled, and was naive enough to flee to England when she could have fled to France where at least she had property, family, and standing. "
Chances are i might be wrong here, but wasn't there substantial evidence, ascertained by Francis Walsingham himself who intercepted her letters, to prove that Mary Stuart had indeed committed treason? While yes, not a subject of Elizabeth, she had apparently sent letters to Phillip of Spain requesting him to invade England?
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DuchessofSuffolk
DuchessofSuffolk
9. RE: The most gruesome executions
Jul 11 2010, 4:13 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 11 2010, 4:13 PM EDT
"Chances are i might be wrong here, but wasn't there substantial evidence, ascertained by Francis Walsingham himself who intercepted her letters, to prove that Mary Stuart had indeed committed treason? While yes, not a subject of Elizabeth, she had apparently sent letters to Phillip of Spain requesting him to invade England?"
You cannot commit treason towards a country you do not belong to though, I think was the basic point of the above post. Even if that were true beyond a doubt, she wasn't an English citizen and hence it (shouldn't) be labeled treason.
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Reggie19
10. RE: The most gruesome executions
Jul 11 2010, 5:11 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 11 2010, 5:11 PM EDT
"You cannot commit treason towards a country you do not belong to though, I think was the basic point of the above post. Even if that were true beyond a doubt, she wasn't an English citizen and hence it (shouldn't) be labeled treason."
Ah right, now i understand, thanks for clarifying.
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I'mTheCheesecakeHere
I'mTheCheesecakeHere
11. RE: The most gruesome executions
Dec 19 2010, 5:46 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 19 2010, 5:46 AM EST
Don't you wish that everything was perfect? if it was, you would be dead from boredom. But some people then didn't know that. Henry didn't know that until he married Jane Seymour. I bet that executions were even more gruesome than portrayed on TV! 2  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    
AJBates
AJBates
12. RE: The most gruesome executions
Dec 19 2010, 7:49 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 19 2010, 7:49 AM EST
"You cannot commit treason towards a country you do not belong to though, I think was the basic point of the above post. Even if that were true beyond a doubt, she wasn't an English citizen and hence it (shouldn't) be labeled treason."
Treason isn't obviously the correct term to have sentenced her with as you stated she wasn't a citizen to be labeled with it. But I don't understand why she would have thought it was a good idea in the first place to go to England and then while in England try to insight riots to overthrow the Queen while she was currently being "jailed" by Elizabeth. (Jailed as in kept in captivity though she was still treated as a Queen for a good majority of it). Monarch's have tried to overthrow rulers by fighting or by trying to inflame rebellion in members of the royal family and nobles but they do it normally far away where there is nothing wrong with it.

Actually though now that I think of it since she had a claim to the throne of England wouldn't that have made her eligible to commit treason against the Queen since though she was the Scottish Queen and Dowager Queen of France it would be similar to an heir trying to kill their father, since one would assume though it was never stated she was the heir though unlabeled as she was as the closest in blood, and with us now knowing that her son went on to suceed Elizabeth as King.
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danii2312
13. RE: The most gruesome executions
Mar 6 2013, 1:32 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 6 2013, 1:32 PM EST
Koa was married before Henry, to Arthur prince of Wales. Also adultery was not a crime punishable by death at any time neither was not being a virgin ( hence Catherine of Aragon and Catherine parr). However, treason was!
So king Henry v111 simply had anne boleyn and catherine howard tried for treason!
He would change the laws to suit his demand. With Anne Boleyn, he tired of her not bearing a son, and needed a new wife!
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MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
14. RE: The most gruesome executions
Mar 7 2013, 7:00 AM EST | Post edited: Mar 7 2013, 7:00 AM EST
"Koa was married before Henry, to Arthur prince of Wales. Also adultery was not a crime punishable by death at any time neither was not being a virgin ( hence Catherine of Aragon and Catherine parr). However, treason was!
So king Henry v111 simply had anne boleyn and catherine howard tried for treason!
He would change the laws to suit his demand. With Anne Boleyn, he tired of her not bearing a son, and needed a new wife! "
One of the categories of The Treason Act (1351) says : "when a man doth compass or imagine the death of our lord the King, or of our lady his Queen or of their eldest son and heir".

So if one even "imagines" the death which is a broad term, it is considered treason. With Anne Boleyn, she even said to Norris that he looks after "dead man's shoes" ie. he wanted to marry the king's wife. So the case was built on the fact that she committed adultery with men who wanted the King's death. The same can be said of Kathryn Howard, in that they said she wanted to be with another man thus imagining the king's death.

So technically, Henry did not change the laws. It was how it was interpreted.

However, he did change the law about executing the insane when it came to Jane Boleyn who had a complete mental breakdown.
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danii2312
15. RE: The most gruesome executions
Mar 7 2013, 12:00 PM EST | Post edited: Mar 7 2013, 12:00 PM EST
I'm just going by what I read somewhere that, it was grounds for divorce and being stripped of land and title but not for death. That's all Do you find this valuable?    
MsSquirrly
MsSquirrly
16. RE: The most gruesome executions
Mar 8 2013, 12:45 AM EST | Post edited: Mar 8 2013, 12:45 AM EST
"I'm just going by what I read somewhere that, it was grounds for divorce and being stripped of land and title but not for death. That's all "
Yes you are right, she was not given a death sentence for adultery but for treason. However, the adultery showed that she "imagined" his death along with the 5 other men.
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danii2312
17. RE: The most gruesome executions
Mar 13 2013, 9:45 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2013, 9:45 AM EDT
"Yes you are right, she was not given a death sentence for adultery but for treason. However, the adultery showed that she "imagined" his death along with the 5 other men. "
Ahhhh, so because she "imagined" his death by supposedly sleeping with 5 men she was in fact commiting treason?.
Thanks
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Anne'sCurls
Anne'sCurls
18. RE: The most gruesome executions
Mar 16 2013, 9:34 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2013, 9:34 PM EDT
The worst death on the show IMO was that poor man who was boiled alive in S2. I still shudder just to think of that scene. Historically speaking I was always put off by Francis Dereham's execution; why let the man who slept with your wife while u were married to her off easily yet torture the man who slept with her before u knew she even existed. Do you find this valuable?    

danii2312
19. RE: The most gruesome executions
Mar 17 2013, 2:33 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 17 2013, 2:33 AM EDT
Originally Thomas culpepper was set to be hung drawn and quartered. But as he was a courtier of Henry's and had previously been held in high regard with Henry, his sentence was revoked to beheading. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

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