Location: Hans Holbein Paintings & Sketches

Discussion: Holbein - realistic painter or not?Reported This is a featured thread

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MadameDeMerteuil
MadameDeMerteuil
Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 3 2008, 6:24 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 3 2008, 6:24 AM EDT
Holbein's portaits seem very realistic to me: he doesn't make all his sitters look gorgeous and adds a bit of personnality to each portrait. At a time were flattery and symbolism were predominent in court portraits - they were mainly political - Holbein's approach is a rarity. He seems however to have gone wrong once...Annne of Cleves. Maybe that proves that even the most realistic portrait is only a fixed image and cannot capture the essence of the sitter. Or does this misadventure prove that Holbein was not a realistic painter after all? What do you think? 0  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Shadow_in_the_Sun
Shadow_in_the_Sun
1. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 3 2008, 1:25 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 3 2008, 1:25 PM EDT
The Anne of Cleves portrait has been debated many a time. I actually believe that it was a true likeness. But her "evil smells" and complete ignorance of English court rituals cannot be expressed in a portrait.

I've seen Holbein's works in person, and they really are incredible to behold. Do you find this valuable?    
heverhoney
heverhoney
2. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 3 2008, 7:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 3 2008, 7:29 PM EDT
"The Anne of Cleves portrait has been debated many a time. I actually believe that it was a true likeness. But her "evil smells" and complete ignorance of English court rituals cannot be expressed in a portrait.

I've seen Holbein's works in person, and they really are incredible to behold."
The things that Henry complained about when it came to Anne of Cleves appearance, such as her alleged pock-marked face, were typically things that wouldn't have been portrayed in a portrait--even if the painter wasn't attempting to make the subject more appealing. Also, he painted her head-on, a position that made her long nose less obvouis. There is another portrait of Holbein's, however, that shows Anne in a position that is not exactly head-on..and this portrait reportedly had a much longer nose that was painted over underneath the current layer. You can find it here on the wiki:
http://tudorswiki.sho.com/page/Anne+of+Cleves+Art+Gallery

It is the portrait with her holding a small bouquet of red flowers with her right hand and with her left hand patting her stomach.
 Do you find this valuable?    
howardfan
howardfan
3. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 3 2008, 7:56 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 3 2008, 7:56 PM EDT
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Boleyn,Anne03.jpg
this is another picture drawn by holbein aswell as the famous portrait of anne boleyn
this particular picture is debated as to whether it is indeed of Anne Boleyn, the eyes are gorgeous but at first glance, she looks like jane seymour but that would be largely due to the awful english hood as the french hoods were a trend set by anne in england and much nicer Do you find this valuable?    
MadameDeMerteuil
MadameDeMerteuil
4. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 4 2008, 7:22 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 4 2008, 7:22 AM EDT
'I've seen Holbein's works in person, and they really are incredible to behold.'

I've seen the works kept by the National Portrait Gallery, they are incredible indeed. Did you also visit the NPG? Do you find this valuable?    
howardfan
howardfan
5. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 4 2008, 5:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 4 2008, 5:50 PM EDT
no i have not, i would most like to see the portraits up close in person, some day :) Do you find this valuable?    
MadameDeMerteuil
MadameDeMerteuil
6. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 5 2008, 6:30 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2008, 6:30 AM EDT
If you ever visit London, do come to the National Portrait Gallery. It's a must for any History fan. It holds portraits of all important British people (Kings, Queens, nobility, Scientists, Musicians, etc) from the Middle Ages to now. There's a Tudor Gallery with portraits of Henry VIII, Edward VI, Mary, Elizabeth and the people who sourrounded them. Entry to NPG is free so you can come in several times and spend as long as you need in any given gallery. I feel blessed living in London, I have acces to so many Historical landmarks, collections and art. Do you find this valuable?    
lettice
lettice
7. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 5 2008, 8:43 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2008, 8:43 AM EDT
"Holbein's portaits seem very realistic to me: he doesn't make all his sitters look gorgeous and adds a bit of personnality to each portrait. At a time were flattery and symbolism were predominent in court portraits - they were mainly political - Holbein's approach is a rarity. He seems however to have gone wrong once...Annne of Cleves. Maybe that proves that even the most realistic portrait is only a fixed image and cannot capture the essence of the sitter. Or does this misadventure prove that Holbein was not a realistic painter after all? What do you think?"
Holbein is most notorious for his portrait of A of C which led to H8 fourth marriage.
Many say her gown and headress over shadowed her features which are more vague and dreamy in appearance.
 Do you find this valuable?    
Shadow_in_the_Sun
Shadow_in_the_Sun
8. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 5 2008, 5:18 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2008, 5:18 PM EDT
"http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Boleyn,Anne03.jpg
this is another picture drawn by holbein aswell as the famous portrait of anne boleyn
this particular picture is debated as to whether it is indeed of Anne Boleyn, the eyes are gorgeous but at first glance, she looks like jane seymour but that would be largely due to the awful english hood as the french hoods were a trend set by anne in england and much nicer"
I've read Joanna Denny's opinion of that particular portrait of Anne - She bases her opinion that the portrait is of Jane Seymour on the fact that the sitter is wearing a gable hood, but to say that Anne never wore an English hood is most likely incorrect.

heverhoney - I already know of the portrait you mention, but I do not think it is a Holbein work. It is from the workshop of Barthel Bruyn the Elder (Cologne).

MadameDeMerteuil - Yes, it was the Holbein exhibition at the NPG, in December 06 :-) It was the largest collection of Holbein’s work to be seen in Britain in over fifty years. Do you find this valuable?    
howardfan
howardfan
9. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 5 2008, 8:13 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2008, 8:13 PM EDT
about the anne b picture, yes i do not think it be jane seymour :-)
because there is no sign of fair hair or light eyes even though this particular pic is black and white, there is a coloured verison which is not beleived to be jane seymour, but who really knows? 0  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
howardfan
howardfan
10. RE: Holbein - realistic painter or not?
Sep 5 2008, 8:16 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2008, 8:16 PM EDT
oh i forgot to add
[url]http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/images/windsor/boleyn.jpg[/url] 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

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