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Mairy |
Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 12:31 AM EDT
Why did Charles Brandon hate Anne Boleyn? 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?
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The Tudors
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Holly2 |
1. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 3:45 PM EDT
"That's something that's been puzzling me. In Season One, he joined with Boleyn and Norfolk in taking down Wolsey and seemed to support Henry in his quest to divorce Katherine and marry Anne. He said to Margaret that Henry should be allowed to marry whoever he wanted. In Season Two, he hates Anne and she seems to have done nothing to him personally that would arouse such ire. In the first episode of Season Two, he had to act as a go-between for Henry and Katherine and hated the job. He still respected Katherine and was clearly uncomfortable with having to deliver Henry's messages to her. He was banished from court for speaking against Anne in the second episode of Season Two, but allowed to return in the same episode, and he snubbed Thomas Boleyn when they were in Calais. By the next episode, he and his servants are referring to Anne as "bitch" and "whore", his wife is counselling him to destroy her and he jumps at the chance to encourage Henry's interest in Eleanor Luke. Anne was tactless in the sixth episode with her reaction to Brandon being chosen to entertain the Admiral of France and, yes, she did suggest that her father would be a better choice, which is hardly surprising given that he was once the Ambassador to France and that she is aware that Brandon hates her, but it was a far cry from treating him worse than a dog. I know that Margaret didn't like Anne, and that Brandon doesn't agree with the way Katherine was treated or with some of the things that are happening in England as a result of Henry's decision to marry Anne. I'd say that he didn't like the fact that Henry chose to believe Anne over him when he alleged that she had slept with Wyatt. He was angry over the death of Pennington but blamed Thomas Boleyn for that. I also don't think he likes some of the changes in Henry - something he and Anne have in common. (to be continued...) 5 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Holly2 |
2. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 3:46 PM EDT
Are things that have happened because of Anne why he has such a problem with her rather than anything she has done to him directly? Is there some personal guilt at play over his part in the whole affair? Did he not expect the Great Matter to go as far as it did and, now that it has, he resents her for it? Is it his wife's influence? She certainly seems to egg him on but we're given no reason why she should have anything against Anne - historically, Brandon's last wife was Catherine Willoughby, daughter of Maria de Salinas, one of Katherine of Aragon's closest ladies in waiting, one who accompanied her from Spain but Catherine Brooke is given no backstory that would explain why she would be so eager to encourage her husband to destroy Anne. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Boudica |
3. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 4:32 PM EDT
"historically, Brandon dislliked Anne Boleyn but not nearly as much as his wife at the time Mary Tudor had (until she died from consumption AFTER her coronation, not before as depicted in the series). Brandon could sympathize with Katherine of Aragon's plight, he was reluctant when Henry sent him as one on the envoys to make her accept the title of princess dowager, but then again Brandon was a true opportunitist at heart and he would never disobey an order from his friend and king. Brandon certainly would have agreed with the Boleyns to get rid of Wolsey's influence and power, but I'm not sure there was at any time an alliance. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Boudica |
4. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 4:35 PM EDT
"Is it his wife's influence? She certainly seems to egg him on but we're given no reason why she should have anything against Anne - historically, Brandon's last wife was Catherine Willoughby, daughter of Maria de Salinas, one of Katherine of Aragon's closest ladies in waiting, one who accompanied her from Spain but Catherine Brooke is given no backstory that would explain why she would be so eager to encourage her husband to destroy Anne."That really puzzled me too. The series made me think that Catherine Brooke (Willoughby)'s dislike of Anne was some what religious based but that wasn't true at all because Willoughby was a Protestant and a dear friend of Catherine Parr, the sixth and last wife of Henry who was also a saunch Reformist. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Reginabee |
5. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 7:06 PM EDT
They were jealous of each other's relationship with Henry. . 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Holly2 |
6. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 7:07 PM EDT
"Brandon, maybe. I don't think Anne was jealous of him - unless, of course, she read slash fan fic. :-) 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Reginabee |
7. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 7:23 PM EDT
Why do you think she wouldn't be? Brandon was one of Henry's "favorites" at court and she knew it. Henry forgave Brandon for things he would have had others executed for (such as marrying Princess Mary without royal permission). As well as being typical court politics, it is also fairly common among alot of new wives and the groom's best buds. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Holly2 |
8. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 7:33 PM EDT
"I think she was more worried about Henry's mistresses than his friends. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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curlyrain |
9. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 9:17 PM EDT
I think Charles was not very happy with what he had to do with Katherine but he did followed Henry's orders and I do believe Anne did acted jealous of Charles cause Henry forgave Brandon easily and he seams to prefered Charles over her father and lets not forget Anne wanted to please her father and Brandon did not like her father or her...on this season I think Brandon's dislike of Anne was influence by his wife and by all of Katherine's suffering he didn't seam to like the fact that he had to delivered all this bad news to Katherine and plus he might had felt that Anne was only using Henry and he was protecting Henry (who needed no protection at all) after all he manage to ride himself of Anne like he did of Katherine and more to come I guess...
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HistoryWitch |
10. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 9:31 PM EDT
"That really puzzled me too. The series made me think that Catherine Brooke (Willoughby)'s dislike of Anne was some what religious based but that wasn't true at all because Willoughby was a Protestant and a dear friend of Catherine Parr, the sixth and last wife of Henry who was also a saunch Reformist."One thing I"m sure of: Brandon was devoted to Henry. Mary(Tudor) Brandon was a great friend of Katherine, K was a champion of Mary's marriage to Brandon. As for Catherine Willoughby, she was an extreme adherent of the Reform but doesn't seem to be at court 'til around Cath. Parrs. time. But Brandon was the king's man to the end. Possibly he felt that Anne was a disloyal wife and that she was detrimental to Henry and the kingdom. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Mairy |
11. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 28 2008, 11:58 PM EDT
"Perhaps Brandon felt that Anne seduced Henry rather than the other way round. Wonder if Cromwell knew of Brandon's hatred and used it to assist in the trumped up charges used against her? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Antoinette99 |
12. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 29 2008, 4:59 PM EDT
"Perhaps Brandon felt that Anne seduced Henry rather than the other way round. Wonder if Cromwell knew of Brandon's hatred and used it to assist in the trumped up charges used against her?"it is odd that he hates Anne so much. But then again, did he really hate her? What about the confrontation with her Father when he asked him if he watched his childrens' executions. He had sympathy at that point. He also looked disturbed at the beheading. He also looked disbelieving when Henry commented about Anne being with 100 men. He looked perplexed and shocked at Henry's wild imagination. Maybe he was guilty in the end when he knew that he had contributed to 2 deaths. I do not know if this was the case in history. I find his hatred odd because she really did not target Charles. She tried to protect herself. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Mairy |
13. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 29 2008, 5:11 PM EDT
Having not seen season one or Henry courting Anne I saw his hatred of her as being odd and unfounded. As you said Antoinette99 perhaps in history it was not this way.
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Holly2 |
14. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
May 29 2008, 5:43 PM EDT
"it is odd that he hates Anne so much. But then again, did he really hate her? What about the confrontation with her Father when he asked him if he watched his childrens' executions. He had sympathy at that point. He also looked disturbed at the beheading. He also looked disbelieving when Henry commented about Anne being with 100 men. He looked perplexed and shocked at Henry's wild imagination. Maybe he was guilty in the end when he knew that he had contributed to 2 deaths. I do not know if this was the case in history. I find his hatred odd because she really did not target Charles. She tried to protect herself. "His hatred seemed to come almost out of the blue and there hasn't been any details given about why he had his change of heart - maybe the official novelisation will give us a look into his thoughts. They didn't show his motive in mentioning to Henry that there were rumours floating around about Anne's behaviour, if it was something he had pre-arranged with Cromwell to destroy Anne or if Cromwell just seized on it as a means of getting rid of Anne - aka. the obstacle to an alliance with the Emperor. If it was just a mention and he had no idea what was to happen, then I would certainly hope that he feels very guilty about the four innocent people whose deaths he contributed to - since Brereton sought out his own death by confessing voluntarily, I'll give Brandon a pass there - but if all he knew were rumours, why hurt his friend by mentioning it without first seeing if there was any truth to it? Surely he knew how Henry was likely to react. Why imply that Anne might be guilty of a capital crime without proof? Re. asking Boleyn if it was worth it, has he forgotten that he was involved in the plotting too? Norfolk and Boleyn were allies when they helped him get back to court and when it came to bringing Wolsey down. Boleyn’s plotting may have helped put his daughter on the throne, but he wasn’t the one trying to drag her down. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Mairy |
15. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
Jun 2 2008, 1:05 PM EDT
In the final episode, did anyone notice that he was the last to kneel to pray for Anne's soul? And he showed little or no emotion during her speech.
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Holly2 |
16. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
Jun 2 2008, 5:05 PM EDT
"In the final episode, did anyone notice that he was the last to kneel to pray for Anne's soul? And he showed little or no emotion during her speech. "I noticed but I think that what he was saying to his son earlier is telling; he tells him that he killed in battle and that the man he killed was his enemy. Obviously, he's not the one swinging the sword this time, but he has helped to bring about Anne's death and, deep down, I think he knows in his heart that she is innocent, so he has to reconcile himself with the idea that he has helped to kill an innocent woman (not to mention four innocent men). It's easier for him if he believes that Anne, like the enemy in battle, deserved to die. His outburst with Thomas Boleyn proves that he is not emotionless about Anne's death, so I wonder if we'll see any lingering effects in Season Three. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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hohumpigsbum |
17. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
Mar 20 2009, 5:11 PM EDT
I also think he got on well with Catherine they were only a year apart in age and he had known her for many years at that point and had seen the many good things she had done for england and how much henry ahd loved her
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Scarlett45 |
18. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
Mar 20 2009, 11:19 PM EDT
Im speaking of the Brandon in The Tudors(not the historical person)..........I dont believe Brandon SPECIFICALLY hated Anne. In Season 1 I dont think anyone(including Brandon) thought Henry would break with Rome to be with Anne and/or treat Katherine so horribly. If Henry hadnt broken with Rome or caused Katherine such distress Brandon probably wouldve been fine with his marriage to Anne. My interptation of Brandon's dislike of Anne, was that he found her arrogant and attempting to rise above her station. He did not like the power she displayed over the king and he did not like the changes Henry made to the country in order to marry her. In Season 2 when Brandon realizes that Henry is serious about his marriage to Anne, no matter what the costs Brandon can no longer tolerate Anne's arrogance, and he probably doesnt think a woman who has had sexual relations with a poet is worth to usurp KofA. He is willing to contribute to Anne's downfall, but he had no idea Henry was going to behead her and several innocents. He probably figured she would be banished to France or the country and Henry would marry someone more suitable. This is why he shows disbelief at the "100 men" comment and his anger to Thomas Boleyn while he is in jail. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Anne'sCurls |
19. RE: Charles Brandon's Hatred of Anne Boleyn
Mar 21 2009, 2:12 AM EDT
| Post edited: Mar 21 2009, 2:18 AM EDT
"That really puzzled me too. The series made me think that Catherine Brooke (Willoughby)'s dislike of Anne was some what religious based but that wasn't true at all because Willoughby was a Protestant and a dear friend of Catherine Parr, the sixth and last wife of Henry who was also a saunch Reformist."I personally didnt see it that way. I didnt think Cathy B cared one way or another. She was just a shoulder for her husband to lean on and she would always hold the views he had. He didnt like Anne so in return she didnt like Anne. I think he hated Anne enough to want her gone, but he didnt hate her enough to want her dead. That scene when Henry is ranting about Anne you can tell he is looking at him like "b**** please" and he doesn't believe it. Charles sailed Anne down the river to her death by accident imo, her father did so willingly and that disgusts Brandon. I think he sees that Anne was nothing more than his father's pawn and that perhaps the wrong person is about to die. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |