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| littleone15 | Roland de Veleville | Discussion Forum | 8 | Today, 6:23 PM EST by littleone15 | ||||
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Thread started: Yesterday, 7:41 PM EST
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I am curious as to what other people think: Was Sir Roland de Velville (de Velevill, de Veleville) really King Henry VII's illegitimate son, and half-brother to Henry VIII, or do you side with S.B. Chrimes that he was not?
I am on the side that he was. Looking at the concepts and opinions that Professor Chrimes uses as evidence, there are many, many holes. He seems to have used incorrect dates and locations, and some faulty arguments. Him, and his supporters and some historians that use him as a source, even have the incorrect battle in which he was knighted! One of the ones that sticks with me is the argument that, had he been a half-brother to Henry VIII, his granddaughter Katherine Tudor of Berain would have been a cousin to Queen Elizabeth I, and when Katherine's eldest son Thomas Salisbury (Salusbury) was implicated as part of the Babington plot, Elizabeth would have never executed him because he would have been kin. I think even the people who just watch the show and don't know the history can pull that theory apart! Him being kin to the Queen made him a bigger target, not a smaller one! I think that he was made constable of Beaumaris castle in Wales, was a servant of the body to Henry VIII, as well as was generally accepted as Henry VII's son in their time and until 1967 it was never questioned, all proves a royal bastard. Anyone else's thoughts? I would love to hear something from either side of the fence. This hits me deep, because he's one of my great-great-great-(etc.)-grandfathers. If he was illegitimate but still blood, that makes King Henry VIII one of my great-uncles. Being a descendant of a Tudor is cool to begin with (and Katherine of Berain's father was a Welsh Tudor anyway), but having to guess and pick through the differing historian's opinions can be either enlightening or upsetting.
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| royalfalcon | The Thread For Discussion on the Tudors Series (page: 1 2 3 4 5) | EPISODE Guide for the Tudors | 88 | Today, 6:08 PM EST by royalfalcon | ||||
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Thread started: Jan 22 2012, 7:39 AM EST
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I have sent out a general message to members informing everybody of the Tudor Series Study. This will be the thread for us all to discuss any aspect of the programme that we wish. It has been suggested that we aim for one episode a week. So we will start off with the first episode and try to get any discussion on that finished by Sunday 29th January. If comments from the first week spill over onto the second it will be okay but if we can try to keep to one episode a week that would be helpful. Also I should point out that if you can only comment occasionally on an episode that is fine.
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| HeverRose | "Wolf Hall" Reading and Discussion (page: 1 2 3 4) | Discussion Forum | 70 | Today, 5:27 PM EST by HeverRose | ||||
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Thread started: Jan 15 2012, 6:25 PM EST
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Many of us have read Hilary Mantel's novel "Wolf Hall." Many of us would like to read it but perhaps have not had the chance or the time, and some of us are ambivalent about reading it. Whatever the case, this thread is meant to be a place to discuss the novel in detail and also to discuss some of the representations of Tudor life and characters that Mantel offers us.
The novel is controversial, due to both its writing style and its presentation of Thomas Cromwell in a sympathetic light. The sequel to Wolf Hall is due to come out in May of this year, so this is a good time to read it if that is something that you have wanted to do. I think a controversial work is a very exciting thing to discuss and I hope that this thread will be lively and entertaining to us all, no matter what your opinion of the novel is. . You may find it brilliant or you may find it frustrating. It is OK to like it or not like it. If you really hate it you will probably stop reading, but if it keeps your interest enough to make valid points then that is welcomed. I am looking for other people's insights to this novel and to share my own. I am also hoping to be able to discuss the text in detail because I think it is an important contemporary piece of fiction about a subject we are all fascinated by: the Court of King Henry VIII. We know the characters, we know the age, we know the story. So let's lend our minds to this book as well as allow the book to show us something. Let's engage with it as Tudor enthusiasts and see where it takes us.
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| LadyTudorsFan | Quick fire round (page: 1 2 3) | Discussion Forum | 42 | Today, 5:27 PM EST by LadyTudorsFan | ||||
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Thread started: Feb 12 2012, 5:51 PM EST
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Today's vote.......
Catherine of Aragon OR Anne Boleyn?
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| LadyTudorsFan | One Line Poem (page: 1 2 3 4 5 ... last page) | Discussion Forum | 328 | Today, 5:21 PM EST by LadyTudorsFan | ||||
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Thread started: Jan 19 2012, 5:16 PM EST
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'Tis yet another Tudor Game,
For creativity, imagination, fun or shame, Thou must remember the name of the game this tyme, One must maketh the next line rhyme! (Translation: Make the next line rhyme with the previous. Olde English language optional!) Once upon a time in 1527.....
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| QueenofTudor | Prince Arthur: | Discussion Forum | 1 | Today, 4:29 PM EST by princess212 | ||||
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Thread started: Today, 4:09 PM EST
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what if Prince Arthur had lived would Henry gone in to the church or would he have been a playboy Prince. And what would have become of Anne Boleyn
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| anneboleynfan92 | The "BEST" Execution in "The Tudors"? (page: 1 2) | EXECUTIONS during Henry's reign as shown on The Tudors | 27 | Today, 3:25 PM EST by Imponthenet | ||||
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Thread started: Aug 16 2011, 7:20 AM EDT
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Odd way to describe it but who's death really was the best scene...historically or visually.
I have to say the whole of Anne's final episode was excellent (i thought). However I also thought Catherine (of aragon's) death was sad too (though not an execution).
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| tudorcrazy | historians criticism (page: 1 2) | HISTORIANS have their say | 22 | Today, 12:27 PM EST by HeverRose | ||||
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Thread started: Aug 18 2009, 11:10 AM EDT
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Wow, these 3 famous historians, who are the gold standard of historical fact, where very harsh with The Tudors. Anyone who watches the show, and has done any reading, particularly their books, knows that Hirst did a lot of embellishment. But it was never intended to be a history lecture.
I think the show has raised awareness for Tudor history, and invigorated the spotlight on this period of history. Being American, I feel we never really learn any of this in high school, as the British do. Michael Hirst has created a show that is a feast for the eyes. The music costumes, and "sexed up" version is divine. I think the acting and production is magnificent, and I am amazed how much scrutiny it has received. I think the proof of this is that all three of these historians have probably had a big increase in their book sales! I know I purchased books and cds, from all of them, in fact many books. Wow, they really were harsh. Especially Starkey, but he's a man. I do think that most of us here on the wiki are women, and we like some romance with our history.
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| LadyMaryAnne | Portrayal's you did not like (page: 1 2 3 4 5 ... last page) | CHARACTERS - Season 4 | 226 | Today, 6:41 AM EST by royalfalcon | ||||
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Thread started: Jun 22 2010, 2:09 PM EDT
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Now that the series is over I want to ask: Were there characters that you did not like how they were being portrayed and why?
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| Anne'sCurls | Joely Richardson | Discussion Forum | 1 | Today, 3:33 AM EST by howardfan | ||||
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Thread started: Oct 25 2011, 4:10 AM EDT
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First let me say that i love Joely and think she is beautiful, she did a good job with the material she was given as Katherine Parr. The one thing that has always rubbed me the wrong way is that because the show refused to age characters appropriately, that she ends up looking older than almost every man she is in a relationship with, even Henry who is supposed to be jogging to death.
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| sweetsister | Catherine Parr Reformer | Discussion Forum | 6 | Today, 3:11 AM EST by howardfan | ||||
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Thread started: Jun 7 2010, 12:46 PM EDT
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Did I miss something on any of the episodes, how is it that Lady Mary and others are convinced or at least suspicious that CP is a reformer? I know that in reality she was but as far as the show is concerned I have not noticed any scene(s) where she may have given away any inclination to her true faith to have the Catholic faction already after her
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| LadyTudorsFan | What was your favourite season of the Tudors? (page: 1 2) | Discussion Forum | 25 | Today, 3:06 AM EST by howardfan | ||||
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Thread started: May 22 2011, 10:35 AM EDT
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Seasons 1, 2, 3 or 4? Which of these was the best Season of the Tudors?
For me, I'd say Season 2 because it was the most dramatic and ended with the most dramatic episode of the whole series, Anne Boleyn's fall and execution.
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| littleone15 | Duke of Buckingham's Accusations | The Tudors Historical Inaccuracies Season 1 | 0 | Today, 1:54 AM EST by littleone15 | ||||
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Thread started: Today, 1:54 AM EST
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I am trying to remember which episode it is where Buckingham says that it's his crown as a "direct descendant of Edward II" and that Henry has only a "bastard's claim on his mother's side" (I think I am quoting correctly).
My argument is with the idea that Henry's only claim came from his mother, while in fact he had three technical claims (maybe stated for drama, or anger in the heat of the moment that he would focus on the weakest link?). He was descended from the Beauforts through his grandmother, which while bastards at birth were legitimated, and the claim was from the oldest surviving son of Edward III, John of Gaunt, who was the father of Henry IV and so on. His grandmother, Margaret Beaufort was the remaining Beaufort claimant. As well, his Tudor grandfather was the son of the Dowager Queen Catherine of Valois, wither married or not, they were recognized as half-siblings by the court of King Henry VI. The statement on Elizabeth of York's declared bastardy is not inaccurate, but of a poor logic. In order to disinherit the "Boys in the Tower" and make himself the legitimate heir to his older brother Edward IV, Richard III declared his brother's marriage to Elizabeth Woodville void and all of their children bastards. However, it does not seem that the court took this decision seriously, even in Richards lifetime. Despite Stafford having a claim to the throne, I find fault that he says that Henry's only claim was through Elizabeth of York.
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historical inaccuracies
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| willsomers | Henry's parents | ANCESTORS of the King | 15 | Today, 1:35 AM EST by littleone15 | ||||
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Thread started: May 31 2010, 3:49 PM EDT
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I think Henry V111 must have been a one-off other than his six wives as Henry V11, was nothing like henry who seemed a very forgiving man, sent hardly anyone to the block even his pretenders eg simnel and warbeck, but his mother Elizabeth tudor who I think was a more forceful and short tempered person may not have been so lenient, if not kept in line by her husband , so perhaps henry took after her?
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| littleone15 | Descendant of Henry VII | DESCENDANTS of the Tudors | 0 | Yesterday, 8:06 PM EST by littleone15 | ||||
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Thread started: Yesterday, 8:06 PM EST
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I am descended from King Henry VII through his illegitimate son, Roland de Velville (see my other posts on the question of if he is a true son or not). It is on my father's mother's side of the family. The Sisson family of Rhode Island were one of the founding families of Portsmouth, and so the family tree has been extremely well kept, as well as DNA research has been done to see who is blood and who is not (our branch of the tree tested positive). Richard and Mary Sisson married their children to the Lawton family, most likely because they themselves had wealth and power in Rhode Island, but the Lawton's had a connection to the Royal family. They actually married three of their children to Lawtons, but only my great-great-etc-grandfather George had children with his wife, Sarah Lawton-Sisson. Her mother, Elizabeth Salisbury, was descended from Katherine Tudor of Berain, through her second son from her first husband, John Salisbury, who was the heir after her eldest son was executed. Katherine Tudor was the granddaughter of Roland de Veleville through his daughter Jane. Roland was considered Henry VIII's half-brother by Henry VIII and other contemporaries, and was given favors by Henry. Katherine was a ward and considered royal cousin to Elizabeth when she was queen (Katherine was about 3 or 4 years old when Elizabeth took the throne, as Roland was about 17 when Henry was born). I have the full tree if anyone wants to see it. As I am descended by both grandmothers and grandfathers, depending on the generation, as well as the family coming to America, I can understand why it would be lost. In fact, it was only through my historical research on the family that I discovered this- I can trace my specific Sisson grandfathers back two generations in England, up to the time of the Reformation, but can't get farther then that. We don't have the family bibles, but like I said, I do have the big list-style tree/
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| elf21379 | Choral Piece | MUSIC of the Tudors | 1 | Sunday, 10:12 PM EST by RoriTudor | ||||
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Thread started: Jan 27 2011, 2:18 PM EST
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Does anyone know the name of the choral piece and the composer for the piece performed during the signing of the Treaty of Universal and Perpetual Peace and Henry's ensuing tantrum during season 1 episode 2? I notice this piece recurs periodically throughout season 1. It is gorgeous.
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| royalfalcon | Suggestions for favourite scene in The Tudors poll (page: 1 2) | Discussion Forum | 29 | Sunday, 3:16 PM EST by blaize1978 | ||||
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Thread started: Nov 20 2011, 8:11 AM EST
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Most of us have favourite scenes in the series. I thought it would be interesting to run a poll to find out which one is the most popular overall. I will start the suggestions off with the following:-
Henry & Anne's Volta Dance Henry as a young man ( with the flashbacks to his younger days, final episode) Anne's Execution Episode
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| KatherynHoward | Shadow of the Tower | Discussion Forum | 2 | Saturday, 1:59 PM EST by juliana-angela | ||||
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Thread started: Feb 15 2012, 11:36 AM EST
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"The Shadow of the Tower" has been on www.youtube.com since December. I have finished watching it and enjoyed the story of Henry VII's reign. Quite endearing to see little Arthur, Henry, Margaret and Catalina. I watched The Shadow of the Tower, The Six Wives of Henry VIII and Elizabeth R as a child. The other two have been reshown, but not Shadow. Showtime should do an updated version of it. Actually, I wish they would go back to the beginning of the War of the Roses and come forward. Lots of material there - John of Gaunt, Owen Tudor, Edward IV, Warwick, Richard III, Elizabeth Woodville, Katherine Swineford, Margaret Beauford, Catherine of France, etc.! It might be interesting to see some of the same actors in new roles. The mind races on!
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Elizabeth of York
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| Jes89 | Anne Boleyn's sign (page: 1 2) | ASTROLOGY of the Tudors | 25 | Friday, 11:48 AM EST by pokisweet | ||||
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Thread started: Jan 17 2010, 8:06 PM EST
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It is not known when she was born, i always felt she was leo, looks so much with her.
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gemini
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| The_Lady_Alicia | Joanna Denny (page: 1 2) | HISTORIANS of the Tudors | 29 | Thursday, 10:09 PM EST by jsmelton1 | ||||
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Thread started: Nov 10 2008, 3:25 AM EST
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I'm currently reading Joanna Denny's biography of Anne Boleyn and I am shocked at the way she has such a bee in her bonnet over KOA.!! I admire both Katherine and Anne for different reasons but the way Denny is going on Anne was the darling of the Protestant reformation and KOA was just a spiteful vindictive bitter old crone! I don't think i have read a more biased biography. Has anyone read it and what were your thoughts?
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